Stephen Bunting

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Murphio
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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Murphio » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:50 am

Booji Boy wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:27 am
Murphio wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:16 pm
Col wrote:
Murphio wrote:
Col wrote:Murphio you seem to be basing your argument on the fact that he has been beaten once by Hamilton and the likes.

Bunting is a quality darts player. You cant base a judgement on a handful of PDC games, which is what you are doing. Or sorry, you are telling us all to wait and see. Well I dont need to wait and see, I already know he is world class based on his already significant achievements.
You are refuting things I never said. I never doubted the man has talent or courage. I also never said he wasnt world class. What I said is simply that there is insufficient evidence thus far to state that Bunting in a top three player in world. I don't believe that he is - top 16 almost certainly but top three - ridiculous assertion at this stage. In actual fact I don't even believe Bunting is the best player in the organisation he just left.
Wowsers at that point. :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg:
Both at the top of their game I take Scott Waites as a better player than Bunting all day long.
This post is almost as absurd as Routs top three post :grin:
I absolutely stand by that post - Waites won another Lakeside since then to go along with his first and the Grand Slam. It's a pity he doesn't appear to take darts that seriously because he is a bigger talent imo than Bunting, Duzza and many others. He is a good match player too. But like I say he isn't that bothered and that's completely up to him.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Booji Boy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:54 am

Murphio wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:50 am
Booji Boy wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:27 am
Murphio wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:16 pm
Col wrote:
Murphio wrote: You are refuting things I never said. I never doubted the man has talent or courage. I also never said he wasnt world class. What I said is simply that there is insufficient evidence thus far to state that Bunting in a top three player in world. I don't believe that he is - top 16 almost certainly but top three - ridiculous assertion at this stage. In actual fact I don't even believe Bunting is the best player in the organisation he just left.
Wowsers at that point. :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg:
Both at the top of their game I take Scott Waites as a better player than Bunting all day long.
This post is almost as absurd as Routs top three post :grin:
I absolutely stand by that post - Waites won another Lakeside since then to go along with his first and the Grand Slam. It's a pity he doesn't appear to take darts that seriously because he is a bigger talent imo than Bunting, Duzza and many others. He is a good match player too. But like I say he isn't that bothered and that's completely up to him.
Fair enough. He won his two worlds playing very average darts. For me Buntings A game is much better than Waites A game.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by DavidOwen67 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:54 pm

Wazza180 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:50 pm
Ginge wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:18 am
ChrisW wrote:There was another prolific poster who loved that turn of phrase.
He isnt even denying it now tbf.
First I was Wayne.

Then I was Robson.

I was then Darren.

Now I am Rout.

Believe what you like.
Possibly still a Rout multiple trying to be clever.
Possibly still Robson or FakeWade.

Certainly a multiple of a regular forum poster.
Too much personal info on other regulars to be otherwise.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Wazza180 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:04 am

DavidOwen67 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:54 pm
Wazza180 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:50 pm
Ginge wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:18 am
ChrisW wrote:There was another prolific poster who loved that turn of phrase.
He isnt even denying it now tbf.
First I was Wayne.

Then I was Robson.

I was then Darren.

Now I am Rout.

Believe what you like.
Possibly still a Rout multiple trying to be clever.
Possibly still Robson or FakeWade.

Certainly a multiple of a regular forum poster.
Too much personal info on other regulars to be otherwise.
What personal info have I disclosed?

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Rout » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm

What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by oche balboa » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:58 pm

Its ok Bradders will run to Gazmong with this
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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Ginge » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 pm

oche balboa wrote:Its ok Bradders will run to Gazmong with this
He could just read it himself, no?

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Murphio » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:09 pm

Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Fair play. I do think you overestimated how good Bunting was/is but at the same time there is absolutely no doubt he is better than what he showed in the PDC. Bunting back then was - and continues to be - one of the best dart players in the world. But there are half a dozen who are consistently better. I am glad to see you are back posting btw - much more interesting than than this Wazza person - maybe it's IFM ;)

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Thehateful180 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Beep beep beep. Deflect deflect deflect.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Murphio » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm

Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:15 pm
Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Beep beep beep. Deflect deflect deflect.
I think his post was very fair. Bunting was among the best players in the world. Maybe not just as high as Rout said - but, people do underestimate just how good some players in the BDO are. Duzza has been a revelation and yet some people would have you believe he is some super league player got lucky. I think Scott Waites, Scott Mitchell, Wayne Warren and Jim Williams are world class players and they are evidence the BDO system, for all its flaws, continues to produce very good players. It not only has to remain in place in some form but whoever takes over should be looking to implement it elsewhere.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Rout » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:57 pm

Good man Murph!

People get things wildly wrong on here every single day. The fact that such an inoccuous, run of the mill comment in a random general discussion about one darts player gets bleated and repeated a full 6 years after it was made, well, I think I have to be flattered by that :)

(That and the idpa one too)

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Thehateful180 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:59 pm

Murphio wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:15 pm
Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Beep beep beep. Deflect deflect deflect.
I think his post was very fair. Bunting was among the best players in the world. Maybe not just as high as Rout said - but, people do underestimate just how good some players in the BDO are. Duzza has been a revelation and yet some people would have you believe he is some super league player got lucky. I think Scott Waites, Scott Mitchell, Wayne Warren and Jim Williams are world class players and they are evidence the BDO system, for all its flaws, continues to produce very good players. It not only has to remain in place in some form but whoever takes over should be looking to implement it elsewhere.
Bunting was never among the best players in the world. He rode a wave of confidence going into the PDC, and had a decent enough first year, but even in his first (and best) year, his head to head record against the absolute top players was poor. He didn't hit nearly as many 12 darters as the best. His averages weren't really much better or worse than his BDO averages. It's just that his new opponents didn't roll over when confronted with a 95 average. Plenty of players have had one decent year in the PDC.

I wouldn't say Durrant has been a revelation, but he's done well. He benefits from being an awkward opponent for quick players as he is poison to watch whilst being a good enough finisher to do something with it. The fact remains though that over really long format games, he cannot keep up with players like Wright.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by ssjsa » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 pm

Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:59 pm
Murphio wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:15 pm
Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Beep beep beep. Deflect deflect deflect.
I think his post was very fair. Bunting was among the best players in the world. Maybe not just as high as Rout said - but, people do underestimate just how good some players in the BDO are. Duzza has been a revelation and yet some people would have you believe he is some super league player got lucky. I think Scott Waites, Scott Mitchell, Wayne Warren and Jim Williams are world class players and they are evidence the BDO system, for all its flaws, continues to produce very good players. It not only has to remain in place in some form but whoever takes over should be looking to implement it elsewhere.
Bunting was never among the best players in the world. He rode a wave of confidence going into the PDC, and had a decent enough first year, but even in his first (and best) year, his head to head record against the absolute top players was poor. He didn't hit nearly as many 12 darters as the best. His averages weren't really much better or worse than his BDO averages. It's just that his new opponents didn't roll over when confronted with a 95 average. Plenty of players have had one decent year in the PDC.

I wouldn't say Durrant has been a revelation, but he's done well. He benefits from being an awkward opponent for quick players as he is poison to watch whilst being a good enough finisher to do something with it. The fact remains though that over really long format games, he cannot keep up with players like Wright.
Very articulate post and point well made. Both Bunting and Durrant are 2 of the most commented on players on forums, and shows that there has always been huge interest in those switching from the BDO to the professional circuit that is the PDC.

Similarities between the two players, as both came across being by far the dominant player in the BDO system when they switched, and both having had good 1st years which led to them being selected to the PL the next year.

I do firmly believe that the change of darts affected Bunting badly, but also accept that perhaps he wasn't as good a player as a lot of us thought. Might be the same with Glen, but personally think he will have a decent 2nd year, and will be close, if not a Top 10 player at the close of 2020.
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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Moongoose McQueeen » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:41 pm

Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:57 pm
Good man Murph!

People get things wildly wrong on here every single day. The fact that such an inoccuous, run of the mill comment in a random general discussion about one darts player gets bleated and repeated a full 6 years after it was made, well, I think I have to be flattered by that :)

(That and the idpa one too)
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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by trotter01 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:56 pm

Does anybody seriously believe Waites at his very best is better than Bunting at his very best... Seriously.!

Bunting's last year in the BDO was far superior than anything Waites has ever produced including his Grand Slam

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by NvH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:05 am

Waites won two world titles to Bunting's one. Waites won a PDC major, something Bunting has yet to achieve despite having many more chances to do so.

Coming back from 8-0 down against James Wade is superior to beating Norris and Tony Toplad.

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by trotter01 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:10 am

NvH wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:05 am
Waites won two world titles to Bunting's one. Waites won a PDC major, something Bunting has yet to achieve despite having many more chances to do so.

Coming back from 8-0 down against James Wade is superior to beating Norris and Tony Toplad.
If Bunting had stayed he won have won plenty more Lakesides playing like he did in that last year... I think his winning of the Winmau without dropping one set in the event was one of the best achievements in BDO darts..

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by phil davies » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:32 am

Buntings top game is better than Waites top game but that doesn’t mean you can’t argue Waites is the better player/achieved more.
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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by NvH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:35 am

For me a cross-code victory is as good as it gets. Remember that Waites also reached the GSoD final the previous year.

What's more, Waites is one of those rare players that has the ability to win when not playing particularly well. I'm not sure I've seen the same kind of spirit from Bunting (don't get me wrong, he's hardly a Tony O'Shea in this regard, but I don't think he has Scott's mental strength).

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Re: Stephen Bunting

Post by Thehateful180 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:53 am

ssjsa wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:21 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:59 pm
Murphio wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:34 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:15 pm
Rout wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm
What i said, was that there were only 2 or 3 players DEFINITELY better than Bunting. The key word in caps. This didn't mean that I think Bunting was the 3rd best player in the world. The point was that the I felt there really was no 3rd or 4th best player. There was 2 or 3 ahead of the pack, then the pack, which contained Bunting. It meant that at the time, with the form of everyone taken into account, because Bunting had yet to switch or only very recently switched, you cannot say with any certainty who is or who isn't, with the exception of the elite at the time. I included the word "definitely" for a reason.

The Ian White thing - well of course that ended up looking stupid and egg and my face are most certainly in alignment as a result. Ill laugh along with all the ribbing I get for that one. Tbh that was kinda more based on the fact that I didn't expect Ian "Not made for TV" white to keep his ranking so high for so long but he proved me wrong so fair do's! But Bunting was playing a lot better back then than he was now, and indeed did for much of his first year. Then he started dicking about with his darts and his throw and hasn't looked the same since.

Worth nothing that Bunting was FIFTH favourite for the PDC World Championship in his first year. So the bookies clearly were also tentative about who you can and can't claim were better players at the time. Admittedly, 5th was probably closer to the mark than 3rd or 4th. But not exactly wildly different. . . .
Beep beep beep. Deflect deflect deflect.
I think his post was very fair. Bunting was among the best players in the world. Maybe not just as high as Rout said - but, people do underestimate just how good some players in the BDO are. Duzza has been a revelation and yet some people would have you believe he is some super league player got lucky. I think Scott Waites, Scott Mitchell, Wayne Warren and Jim Williams are world class players and they are evidence the BDO system, for all its flaws, continues to produce very good players. It not only has to remain in place in some form but whoever takes over should be looking to implement it elsewhere.
Bunting was never among the best players in the world. He rode a wave of confidence going into the PDC, and had a decent enough first year, but even in his first (and best) year, his head to head record against the absolute top players was poor. He didn't hit nearly as many 12 darters as the best. His averages weren't really much better or worse than his BDO averages. It's just that his new opponents didn't roll over when confronted with a 95 average. Plenty of players have had one decent year in the PDC.

I wouldn't say Durrant has been a revelation, but he's done well. He benefits from being an awkward opponent for quick players as he is poison to watch whilst being a good enough finisher to do something with it. The fact remains though that over really long format games, he cannot keep up with players like Wright.
Very articulate post and point well made. Both Bunting and Durrant are 2 of the most commented on players on forums, and shows that there has always been huge interest in those switching from the BDO to the professional circuit that is the PDC.

Similarities between the two players, as both came across being by far the dominant player in the BDO system when they switched, and both having had good 1st years which led to them being selected to the PL the next year.

I do firmly believe that the change of darts affected Bunting badly, but also accept that perhaps he wasn't as good a player as a lot of us thought. Might be the same with Glen, but personally think he will have a decent 2nd year, and will be close, if not a Top 10 player at the close of 2020.
I suspect it was the Premier League that really finished Bunting. Playing the cream of the crop week in week out and getting regularly beaten would have lost him a lot of confidence. His scoring actually didn't really plummet for a while, but his ability to get over the line faltered. Bunting's game was solidly 93-95 average which lent itself to BDO domination. It can be the case in the PDC that flashes of brilliance amongst inconsistency can trump being solid though, Alan Norris had a great first year through flashes of brilliance.

Duzza may well have a decent second year, I suspect he'll peak at around number 8 in the world. It's the third year that is the most difficult though. He'll be defending money. As for Waites, he was a decent player between 09-11. We have to bear in mind though that had he joined the busier PDC tour, his shoulder issues would have surfaced earlier.

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