Suggestion for the women's game on TV

[trotter]

i think everybody who knows darts know that both players can play better than than last night....i have never actually seen Stacy play before but i have ssen Tricia play and i know she can play better and there were signs towards the end of the match of it getting better as they were getting used to the stage and all that went with it.
However if we are being honest i think the event set women's darts back a long way...this is where players like Trina have let women's darts down by not entering this...forget politics but this was a chance to get top standard womens darts on TV and a top quality final night have made a statement and there is nobody more experienced on stage than Trina...the 2 who were there deserved it but it did not promote womens darts in any way at all and only set it back....Sky were not behind the match at all and you could see why and i cannot blame them for that as they have a quality product to sell and promote.
I dont think we will ever see womens darts on TV at all really...the audience is not there...the TV companies dont want it....Anastasia did wonders for herself with her efforts and obviously made the right move to leave but the only way womens darts will ever get any real coverage i think is for the women to play on the mens tour like Ana but to be fair none of them are consistently good enough to make an impression that way either
it was a good experiment and really good money but more players should have supported it but to be honest it will now be much much harder to fight the corner for more women's darts on TV because it just aint going to happen

[mancdart]

http://dartsdatabase.co.uk/PlayerDetail ... yerResults

The best female player ever and she hardly ever reaches an 85 average.

[Paddy McGinty]

Chop is right about ladies overall... there are quite a few who can and do throw over 30 averages and not just occasionally either.

Well if this is the case why don't the scrap the women's tournaments and let them compete against the men, if they are good enough they would get all the exposure they could ever imagine and look at the prize money they could earn.

I don't wish to seem rude, but it is my honest opinion, the few times I have watched women's darts on TV I have found it to be boring, and the standard of play, less consistent than of the men's tournaments.


Regards Paddy

[mancdart]

the 30 + ave for the women is a myth.

http://dartsdatabase.co.uk/PlayerDetail ... erKey=4007

[Mr Glass]

Well if this is the case why don't the scrap the women's tournaments and let them compete against the men, if they are good enough they would get all the exposure they could ever imagine and look at the prize money they could earn.
Regards Paddy

Agree with this.

I've never really understood why men and women can't compete on the same level when it comes to darts.

[avalon]

Chop is right about ladies overall... there are quite a few who can and do throw over 30 averages and not just occasionally either.

Well if this is the case why don't the scrap the women's tournaments and let them compete against the men, if they are good enough they would get all the exposure they could ever imagine and look at the prize money they could earn.

I don't wish to seem rude, but it is my honest opinion, the few times I have watched women's darts on TV I have found it to be boring, and the standard of play, less consistent than of the men's tournaments.


Regards Paddy

The problem is Paddy that there are a number of women who can and do throw over 30 averages but the next time they throw 22 or something similar. The trebles and doubles going in in one match suddenly start hitting the wires in the next. When a ladies average falls they do so by maybe 20 to 30 % when a mans falls it goes down by 5 or 10 %. Don`t ask me why because if I knew I would sell the secret. The problem is when they get to a TV event they have the additional stress of having to put up their best to please the armchair critics.

As for 30+ averages for ladies being a myth, the stats you keep quoting are for what... 3 tournaments? and not all the rounds or years.... very limited and not at all realistic. For instance it doesnt mention anywhere on those 2 links Trina vs Francis in the winmau when both averaged over 30 in the final. It doesnt mention 2 or 3 semis when Trina threw over 30, it doesnt mention a tournament where I watched Francis throw a 36+ average in a quarter final match ( bo7 ). If you want to comment on the standard of ladies darts, forget a few stats on a website and go and watch some of them throw in tournaments.

A few figures missing from Trinas stats

1999 winmau 32.52, 2000, 30.67, 2004, 32.28, 2005, 30.27 and in 1999 she lost the final to Francis who had a 31.68

[Ted Hankeys Cape]

However if we are being honest i think the event set women's darts back a long way...this is where players like Trina have let women's darts down by not entering this...forget politics but this was a chance to get top standard womens darts on TV and a top quality final night have made a statement and there is nobody more experienced on stage than Trina

Perhaps she/they could see the event for what it really was.

[trotter]

However if we are being honest i think the event set women's darts back a long way...this is where players like Trina have let women's darts down by not entering this...forget politics but this was a chance to get top standard womens darts on TV and a top quality final night have made a statement and there is nobody more experienced on stage than Trina

Perhaps she/they could see the event for what it really was.

and also very wealthy if they afford to turn down 10 grand

[Paddy McGinty]

Chop is right about ladies overall... there are quite a few who can and do throw over 30 averages and not just occasionally either.

Well if this is the case why don't the scrap the women's tournaments and let them compete against the men, if they are good enough they would get all the exposure they could ever imagine and look at the prize money they could earn.

I don't wish to seem rude, but it is my honest opinion, the few times I have watched women's darts on TV I have found it to be boring, and the standard of play, less consistent than of the men's tournaments.


Regards Paddy

The problem is Paddy that there are a number of women who can and do throw over 30 averages but the next time they throw 22 or something similar. The trebles and doubles going in in one match suddenly start hitting the wires in the next. When a ladies average falls they do so by maybe 20 to 30 % when a mans falls it goes down by 5 or 10 %. Don`t ask me why because if I knew I would sell the secret. The problem is when they get to a TV event they have the additional stress of having to put up their best to please the armchair critics.

As for 30+ averages for ladies being a myth, the stats you keep quoting are for what... 3 tournaments? and not all the rounds or years.... very limited and not at all realistic. For instance it doesnt mention anywhere on those 2 links Trina vs Francis in the winmau when both averaged over 30 in the final. It doesnt mention 2 or 3 semis when Trina threw over 30, it doesnt mention a tournament where I watched Francis throw a 36+ average in a quarter final match ( bo7 ). If you want to comment on the standard of ladies darts, forget a few stats on a website and go and watch some of them throw in tournaments.

A few figures missing from Trinas stats

1999 winmau 32.52, 2000, 30.67, 2004, 32.28, 2005, 30.27 and in 1999 she lost the final to Francis who had a 31.68

I haven't quoted any stats, I was voicing my opinion of ladies darts on TV, I was saying that it was boring and a lot of people would prefer watching mens tournaments. I see no reason why a woman can't become as consistant as a man, after all it hardly requires any physical effort to throw a dart over a distance of just shy of 8 feet.

Regards Paddy

[chop]

game set and match to avalon!! this website has been full of posts criticizing df over posts slagging of players and organizations after reading posts on the womens champs perhaps you should get your own house in order, some of the points made about trish and stacey have been downright insulting, i expect it on df but thought this was meant to be the vouice of reason in forum land

The posts on here were mild compared to df at least on here it was only the players ability and perfromance on the night that came under scrutiny, and I have already posted my feelings on that.
For you to come on and criticise the posters on this site when the posts on df were far far worse and yet Deta wears a patch publicising that forum is a bit of double standards I think.

not at all df is an over 18 site this site is meant to show respect to players, well seemingly thats only true for men or woman in the pdc you might think the criticism was mild i think it wasnt, deta is a member of df but then again she has always been a bit of a rebel has met loads of the guys on df and was surprised how knowledgable and passionate they are about darts, but believes that by arguing the case with some of the more provocative posters on there they might change their minds long shot i know,in the meantime she will continue to post on df, support their events inc the df open and will put straight the keyboard warriors

[ChrisW]

the 30 + ave for the women is a myth.

http://dartsdatabase.co.uk/PlayerDetail ... erKey=4007

how come a myth?

[Offline]

not at all df is an over 18 site this site is meant to show respect to players, well seemingly thats only true for men or woman in the pdc you might think the criticism was mild i think it wasnt, deta is a member of df but then again she has always been a bit of a rebel has met loads of the guys on df and was surprised how knowledgable and passionate they are about darts, but believes that by arguing the case with some of the more provocative posters on there they might change their minds long shot i know,in the meantime she will continue to post on df, support their events inc the df open and will put straight the keyboard warriors[/quote]

I never said the criticism was mild I said it was mild compared to df. So you think the criticism on here wasn't mild so what description would you give to the critiscism on df ? And I'm sorry but in what way is df an over 18 site, do you have to send a copy of your birth certificate to admin before your membership is accepted ?

[chop]

No but it is known as an adult site as ollynufc will confirm when he was found to be under 18 he had to leave

[Fergal]

How would 301 help in terms of doubles, which has always been the killer heel where the ladies are concerned?

I think it is important to keep a sense of perspective and not overreact to last night in the heat of the moment.

There has been a massive improvement in strength in depth on the female side in the last five or so years, with Gulliver, Hoenselaar, Dobromyslova, Hedman, Gore and Armstrong; plus the likes of Lewis and Jones coming through in the youth.

[Rave]

B-O-R-I-N-G

[nikkiboy]

game set and match to avalon!! this website has been full of posts criticizing df over posts slagging of players and organizations after reading posts on the womens champs perhaps you should get your own house in order, some of the points made about trish and stacey have been downright insulting, i expect it on df but thought this was meant to be the vouice of reason in forum land

Sorry Paul but you are talking through your anus on this one mate, for starters where are all of these posts criticizing other forums? secondly are you advocating that we go down the old SOD route of deleting and banning any posts which dare to criticise any players or organisations? we stated at the outset that we would attempt to be more open, that said I personally deleted several derogatory comments about the two ladies involved and warned the offenders.

Before comparing us to df may I suggest that you read the first post on the ladies subject on there which goes something like "2 butt ugly, old, most probably lesbian, women fighting it out in the race to six for the world championship. 6 legs wins you a world title? wow, thats shameful. Averages are likely to be in the low 70's, high 60's, or in other words, the standard of down's sydrome children. With only 3 fingers. Why do they bother even to put on a championship for the women? Its so sh** and pointless you really have to ask yourself, why bother? If women arent good enough to compete on the main tour then they should f*** the f*** off back into the kitchen."

Once you have read this may I suggest that you get off of your high horse and see the thread on here for what it is and then remember what it could have turned into had it been on the other place which you speak about so fondly.

I have no problems at all with discussing moderating decisions with anyone but I flatly refuse to pander to people who go out of their way to find fault with what we are trying to achieve here, which is free speech and opinions but WITH mutual respect and free from any language or personal attacks.

You also claim in a later post that its ok because df is an 18 site only, which I know to be true BUT when registering there you do not even have to provide a valid email address for clarification so absolutely no checks are made as to the age of new members.

This is no fault of the df team as they clearly state at every turn that you have to be over 18 to join and accept the terms and conditions but please do not tell me that comments such as the above are alright in your opinion because they are on an 18 only site, especially when the comments above are on the Dart Board section which is readable to anyone and everyone and you do not even have to be a member to read them - by the way I removed all the swear words so as not to offend on here, also the swear filter we have in place on here would have caught those swear words, this is done because we know we have under 18's read the forum.

I have no issue with df or the way they run their forum, in fact as you well know I have been a member there for quite a while, in fact it was me who got you involved there, but before you ask us to get our house in order here may I suggest you take a balanced look around you and judge everyone with the same scales.

Nick

[Offline]

Well said Nick

[chop]

you mean the busy p /wuurd rap rap rap posting i think i made my comments perfectly clear to him i also admit ,in my opinion he should be banned , but on joining df i cant expect them to change their policy just for me and thepost abouit deta wearing a df badge so what it is a free country she wears it for all the good members she has met through that forum, guys and gals who have come to events and supported her she doesnt wear it for the 1 or 2 morons on df.
its a bit like when the national front took over the george cross and they tried to make us feel guilty about showing our national colours , so in a crowd of george cross waving people theres far more good people than bad, thats why she has worn a df badge at events for the majority of df members, and to prove the point she hasnt been paid anything for wearing it!! its just an acknowledgement of the good wishes and support she has recieved from df members.

Nikki i was a member on the old site as well i was having problems logging on thats all thanx for your help,it just narks me that every problem in darts and forums seem to get laid at df doorstep i cant understand why so many of the members here read it if its so terrible! i like all the main forums they all have something to offer i probably like df the most because what they say on the forum they say to your face ! during 18months on the circuit i have witnessed so much backstabbing its untrue ,dont get paranoid thats not aimed at just this site

[Rout]

Quite right chop. The notion that people are individuals and not tied to a forum is so often forgotten.

Thanks for the post there Nick, not quite sure why you need to be so vocal, post quoting etc when its not a member of staff making these points but there you go. It was quite generalised point that not everything is black and white, not a "who is worse" competition as you seem to have made it in your post.

The point about over 18s. Now of course I have never used such websites. . . .but try going on the number of free porn sites on the internet and tell me if you have to register using an email address, or even actually have to press anything declaring your age?

It is a parents responsibility and their responsibility ONLY to moderate their childrens usage of the internet and place restriction etc as a result.

Bots etc gather such information and catogorise such sites and df does appear as an over 18s site on many work and parental filters. I myself couldnt get on the site the other day on my new orange phone because they had a filter on and i had to phone to get it turned off.

Not at al bothered about what you have on here - as you can probably tell we are for free speech - but Pauly speaks for himself only. If someone comes on df moaning about the modding policy and making comparisms to here, I would defend our site without feeling the need to drag yours down while doing so.

[nikkiboy]

Quite right chop. The notion that people are individuals and not tied to a forum is so often forgotten.

Thanks for the post there Nick, not quite sure why you need to be so vocal, post quoting etc when its not a member of staff making these points but there you go. It was quite generalised point that not everything is black and white, not a "who is worse" competition as you seem to have made it in your post.

The point about over 18s. Now of course I have never used such websites. . . .but try going on the number of free porn sites on the internet and tell me if you have to register using an email address, or even actually have to press anything declaring your age?

It is a parents responsibility and their responsibility ONLY to moderate their childrens usage of the internet and place restriction etc as a result.

Bots etc gather such information and catogorise such sites and df does appear as an over 18s site on many work and parental filters. I myself couldnt get on the site the other day on my new orange phone because they had a filter on and i had to phone to get it turned off.

Not at al bothered about what you have on here - as you can probably tell we are for free speech - but Pauly speaks for himself only. If someone comes on df moaning about the modding policy and making comparisms to here, I would defend our site without feeling the need to drag yours down while doing so.

Rout:
If you read the posts again you will see that it was Paul who made direct comparison to both forums and the ladies threads and then questioned the modding policy on here, that being the case I felt it was justified to point out to him just what the differences are in the content of the threads and to question how he can single us out for criticism? It was not an attempt to show who was worse simply to try and fathom out his comments.

The under 18 thing you are correct that a parent should be responsible for a minor signing up to an adult web site, however if you read the posts it was being suggested by Paul that the comments are ok because no minors will read it, we are naive if we believe this but then again as you say they should not be there, but my response was a direct answer to that assumption.

It seems lately that everything has to be a problem, I have always and will continue to speak my mind and reply as I feel is appropriate to comments directed at me or this forum, sometimes I will be right and sometimes I will be wrong. On this occassion I believe that I was correct in my reply to a direct swipe at this place and comparison with df. Believe me when I say that I am getting tired with all the crap that has gone on recently, as I am sure everyone else is.

Paul:
I must have missed the post where you replied to Busy's comments, read the thread and saw nothing so if you did then apologies for questioning you, I just found it annoying that you questioned the posts here whilst saying nothing about worse examples elsewhere.

This is not an uncensored forum, nor we do not profess or want to be, we will remove and ban anyone or anthing we feel has crossed the line but the big question is where is that line drawn?
Obviously we cannot read every single post straight away, although we do try but as a team here we trust each others judgement, we have to and if a mod allows it then its ok and if he deletes it then it crossed the line, quite simple really. If there are posts there that cross that line then hit the report button and we will look and deal with it.