PDC Order of Merit

[Addicks Fan]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Ex BDO boy smashing up the ranks..........

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

[Murphio]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

[ifm]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

Indeed, much as the bdo have done for decades with Superleague and county.

[Paddy McGinty]

Murph getting himself a new A-hole torn on this thread.........

Beep, Beep, Beep!

[Murphio]

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

Indeed, much as the bdo have done for decades with Superleague and county.

Correct - I stated as much above. Players create themselves with their own ability. All any org does is provide a platform for that ability to shine. The PDC is going down the coaching schools route which I think is a a waste of time. Apart from maybe counting I'm not sure darts can be taught. If it were possible Taylor's son would be a pro darts player.

[Paddy McGinty]

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

Indeed, much as the bdo have done for decades with Superleague and county.

And don't forget the boys & girls and proper youth, they would have no where to go if it wasn't for the BDO and other regional orgs....

[ifm]

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

Indeed, much as the bdo have done for decades with Superleague and county.

And don't forget the boys & girls and proper youth, they would have no where to go if it wasn't for the BDO and other regional orgs....

Darts for all brother, Amen.

[ifm]

Murph getting himself a new A-hole torn on this thread.........

Beep, Beep, Beep!

He is really tying himself in knots now
I might have to put the signal up for him!

[Murphio]

Murph getting himself a new A-hole torn on this thread.........

Beep, Beep, Beep!

He is really tying himself in knots now
I might have to put the signal up for him!

The day you or McGinty tie me in knots over anything is the day Belzebub will be snow boarding to work.

[Addicks Fan]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

On a slightly different subject, should the PDC allow players who are struggling to drop down a level to the challenge tour mid-year? At the moment you are kind of stuck where you are if you are going through a rough patch. Or can you resign your tour card at any time during the year?

[Murphio]

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

On a slightly different subject, should the PDC allow players who are struggling to drop down a level to the challenge tour mid-year? At the moment you are kind of stuck where you are if you are going through a rough patch. Or can you resign your tour card at any time during the year?

I had thought previously about a divisional structure with perhaps promotion and relegation. Though I guess its kind of like that in any case. Not sure how your proposal would work but it must be tough for guys in a slump getting their ass handed to them every week. MVG showed the benefit of taking a step back. Alan Tabern seemed to rediscover some good form too.

[The Jolly Man]

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

On a slightly different subject, should the PDC allow players who are struggling to drop down a level to the challenge tour mid-year? At the moment you are kind of stuck where you are if you are going through a rough patch. Or can you resign your tour card at any time during the year?

Yes. It should be a fluid ranking system that combines money won on challenge tour and pro tour. Maybe even development tour could be included. Top 128 who enter at pro tour cut off play. Scrap the tour card.

[nikkiboy]

Is it just possible, just possible, that MvG was a fantastic darts player who first showed it in the BDO, then went off the boil

That is exactly the case. I don't think I have ever seen anyone claim otherwise so i think that is a bit of a strawman argument. All that has been said is that the PDC's introduction of satellite tours allowed MVG to take a step away from the dog eat dog world of top level darts to regain the mojo he had already shown while playing in the BDO.

I think the idea was that the Development tour made him, this is simply not the case.

Of course it isn't, what wally would say such things?

Actually I am saying something similar, I watched MVG on the pro tour 2010/2011 lose to people he really shouldn't have lost to and his confidence was shot to pieces and slowly as he started winning in the youth tour which at the time were played at the same place on the same weekend as the pro tour, he started to get his confidence back and turned it around. I am saying that had it not been for the confidence his results on the youth tour gave him he may well not have continued and turned it around. Just take a look at his results 2010 to early 2012 and tell me I'm mistaken.

[ifm]

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

On a slightly different subject, should the PDC allow players who are struggling to drop down a level to the challenge tour mid-year? At the moment you are kind of stuck where you are if you are going through a rough patch. Or can you resign your tour card at any time during the year?

Yes. It should be a fluid ranking system that combines money won on challenge tour and pro tour. Maybe even development tour could be included. Top 128 who enter at pro tour cut off play. Scrap the tour card.

Be difficult adding the development tour as it would give a big advantage to those that can do that and Challenge.

[The Jolly Man]

Calm down Murph, if you can't see that time and time again people on here say that one organisation or the other should take the credit for a dart player's improvement then you must be blind! I was merely pointing out that the dart player himself is the one responsible for the improvement, not the PDC or BDO. And yes, it is all one big troll, but I got a bit fed up with it yesterday, that's all! I see a darts player, not the organisation, as the most important part in the process. Sometimes it appears as if others don't share that view.

Yes, it is indeed one big, sad troll. As I said above; no darts org creates players. I actually think it is impossible to coach darts into someone; they either have the talent and hand to eye coordination or they don't. All any org can do is provide an arena and a platform for that talent to flourish. The PDC do deserve credit for the sattellite tours regardless because, imo, they provide either an alternative to people who are struggling in the main tour to get their game together without being slaughtered every week while also providing an opportunity for aspiring players to dip their toe in the pond.

On a slightly different subject, should the PDC allow players who are struggling to drop down a level to the challenge tour mid-year? At the moment you are kind of stuck where you are if you are going through a rough patch. Or can you resign your tour card at any time during the year?

Yes. It should be a fluid ranking system that combines money won on challenge tour and pro tour. Maybe even development tour could be included. Top 128 who enter at pro tour cut off play. Scrap the tour card.

Be difficult adding the development tour as it would give a big advantage to those that can do that and Challenge.

Not if say you couldn't then enter challenge tour if you were higher than 96 in the rankings or something. Same as development tour. Saying that if you have a fluid ranking system the development tour as an age group thing could be removed but just have it as a bottom of the rung events. And then Challenge tour could have a fixed 128 field.

[BlueSpark]

Is it just possible, just possible, that MvG was a fantastic darts player who first showed it in the BDO, then went off the boil

That is exactly the case. I don't think I have ever seen anyone claim otherwise so i think that is a bit of a strawman argument. All that has been said is that the PDC's introduction of satellite tours allowed MVG to take a step away from the dog eat dog world of top level darts to regain the mojo he had already shown while playing in the BDO.

I think the idea was that the Development tour made him, this is simply not the case.

Of course it isn't, what wally would say such things?

Actually I am saying something similar, I watched MVG on the pro tour 2010/2011 lose to people he really shouldn't have lost to and his confidence was shot to pieces and slowly as he started winning in the youth tour which at the time were played at the same place on the same weekend as the pro tour, he started to get his confidence back and turned it around. I am saying that had it not been for the confidence his results on the youth tour gave him he may well not have continued and turned it around. Just take a look at his results 2010 to early 2012 and tell me I'm mistaken.

Valid and correct points Nick, I will not disagree with you.
My point was the Youth tour didn't make him as a player, he was world class before that. His dip in form and confidence was corrected by winning regularly on the Youth tour, of that I am sure.

[ssjsa]

Latest table from Burton.

[ssjsa]

Updated OOM sees Suljovic in a career high 5th place and Rob Cross continue to shoot up the rankings.

[ssjsa]

Tweet from Dan Dawson.

MvG's last 25 days:
3 TV titles won (all successfully defended)
£262,500 prize money
16 wins
0 defeats
Legs for: 159
Legs against: 88
Insults in interviews: 1 https://t.co/euiEFAEBXb

[mvz]

I always update my own Order of Merit in Excel, but I'm not publishing it (anymore). Also because of ACF great work here.

Maybe I can upload these Excel-files at this forum if you like. It also gives un update about the qualifying list from the big tournaments.

Link: Order of Merit Excel

Hi! I'm a darts commentator for the Netherlands and I really like your file. I was thinking to start up something like this myself, but it is too much work to start it from scratch. I've downloaded your June version, but if you have a more recent one it will save me filling in a big number of tournaments myself. My gratitude would be huge