PDC Order of Merit

[BlueSpark]

Fantastic debate on this subject, and with the exception of our resident Fusilier drinker, think every other poster is contributing in a genuine manner, and posting their genuine and honest opinions.

Will try and keep up with this thread, however the Glorious Hoops are just about to kick off against Bayern at Paradise, so my priorities are firmly at Celtic Park for the next 2 hours.

Fully expecting Chelsea to win this evening aswell. Not watching though, no BT sport or wifi to stream it.

May have to revise this comment...

[Mgt]

Is it just possible, just possible, that MvG was a fantastic darts player who first showed it in the BDO, then went off the boil

That is exactly the case. I don't think I have ever seen anyone claim otherwise so i think that is a bit of a strawman argument. All that has been said is that the PDC's introduction of satellite tours allowed MVG to take a step away from the dog eat dog world of top level darts to regain the mojo he had already shown while playing in the BDO.

I think the idea was that the Development tour made him, this is simply not the case.

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

[ifm]

That is exactly the case. I don't think I have ever seen anyone claim otherwise so i think that is a bit of a strawman argument. All that has been said is that the PDC's introduction of satellite tours allowed MVG to take a step away from the dog eat dog world of top level darts to regain the mojo he had already shown while playing in the BDO.

I think the idea was that the Development tour made him, this is simply not the case.

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Mgt]

I think the idea was that the Development tour made him, this is simply not the case.

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

[Murphio]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

[BlueSpark]

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

Yes.

[ifm]

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

Oh come on, nobody was crowing that Radjeski (sp?) was a lowly bdo player killing it in the pdc yet he wins a bdo major and all the fanboys are claiming he's a lowly pdc player battering the top bdo players.
Yet I'm the troll
The intimation is that the pdc make these players completely forgetting the years they spent in the bdo, it's stupid.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Murphio]

Who has said that? I have genuinely never, ever seen that claimed. It is pretty common knowledge MVG was a top talent in the BDO. He lost his way and the development tour allowed him to regain his confidence. I haven't seen a single post on here to the contrary.

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

[ifm]

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

He has never played on the challenge tour.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Murphio]

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

He has never played on the challenge tour.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Is it any wonder you are despised by basically everyone on here? Sorry, Mr Pedant. The Youth Tour. Better?

[ifm]

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

He has never played on the challenge tour.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Is it any wonder you are despised by basically everyone on here? Sorry, Mr Pedant. The Youth Tour. Better?

I'm universally loved.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Mgt]

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

Oh come on, nobody was crowing that Radjeski (sp?) was a lowly bdo player killing it in the pdc yet he wins a bdo major and all the fanboys are claiming he's a lowly pdc player battering the top bdo players.
Yet I'm the troll
The intimation is that the pdc make these players completely forgetting the years they spent in the bdo, it's stupid.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I seem to remember people claiming Ratajski as a BDO player while ignoring most of his stage experience was earned on the Eurotour stages this year. It happens from both sides, and a bit of banter is always fun, but it is getting a bit ridiculous with some at both sides.

[ifm]

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

Oh come on, nobody was crowing that Radjeski (sp?) was a lowly bdo player killing it in the pdc yet he wins a bdo major and all the fanboys are claiming he's a lowly pdc player battering the top bdo players.
Yet I'm the troll
The intimation is that the pdc make these players completely forgetting the years they spent in the bdo, it's stupid.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I seem to remember people claiming Ratajski as a BDO player while ignoring most of his stage experience was earned on the Eurotour stages this year. It happens from both sides, and a bit of banter is always fun, but it is getting a bit ridiculous with some at both sides.

Possibly, after the threads appeared slagging the bdo off.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Mgt]

I didn't want to get into individual posts, as it was the general argument I was highlighting, but SSJA agreed that the Challenge Tour was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MvG. That is just another of many examples of people giving credIit for players talent to a darting org that merely gives them an opportunity to show that talent.

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

That is exactly what I said isn't it? At least what I meant, orgs don't produce players but they create the opportunities for them to develop themselves.

[Deleted User]

Rob Cross has developed into one excellent dart player, came from practically nowhere. Not many people picked him in their UK open choices the other year,when Barry Lynn also did the business. What happened to him?

Herts B for him. One-hit wonder

I think he's hit more than one person in the past

[Murphio]

The orgs do deserve some credit for creating the opportunities for players to develop themselves I think. If the PDC had decided to just keep on waiting for players to come through the BDO instead of investing in youth darts, there probably wouldn't be a bald Dutchman at the top of the world ranking today.

Similarly, with UK Open amateur qualifiers the PDC created a low treshold way for players to test themselves against top players, and the Challenge Tour gives aspiring darters the chance to test if they've got what it takes over a long spell of tournaments. This probably gave Rob Cross the confirmation he was good enough to give the full tour a try. Barry Lynn on the other hand discovered he has problems regularly reproducing his UK Open form.

Another example would be orgs providing sufficient prizefunds and exposure to darts players to make focussing on darts a viable career choice if you're good enough. The BDO first did this at the end of the seventies/beginning of the eighties so people like Bristow and Lowe could give up their dayjobs. The PDC is now pushing this to the next level with the majority of the top 20 probably being able to live quite comfortably on their darts earnings.

Claiming the first org or comp a player threw his darts in as 'producing' that player is ridiculous though. The vast majority of players probably threw their first arrers in their dad's garage or shed, yet claiming garages and sheds are vital for the game is daft at best.

Competing against others and having regular possibilities to test yourself against better players is what is essential for players, and it is an organisation's job to provide those opportunities.

The point is completely ignoring a players history to score a point on a darts forum is daft.
Nobody is claiming the bdo created players, merely refuting the crap that the pdc did.

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I think it happens from both sides though, claiming the BDO has done nothing to produce top players is as daft as claiming the BDO made every player in the PDC because most of them played some tournaments somewhere on the BDO/WDF side of the divide.

The BDO does nothing to 'create' players. It simply gives those with the talent and the application a platform. It's not like a football club where players will be coached. Players create themselves - all any org does is provide an arena for their talent to shine. There is no doubt, in MVG's case, he needed the platform of the Challenge Tour to get his game back together again. Without it he may never have rediscovered the form which won him the Winmau.

That is exactly what I said isn't it? At least what I meant, orgs don't produce players but they create the opportunities for them to develop themselves.

Yes, and I haven't seen anyone saying otherwise. This whole argument has been created to knockdown. A lot of nonsense.

[Addicks Fan]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Ex BDO boy smashing up the ranks..........

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

[Murphio]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Ex BDO boy smashing up the ranks..........

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

What... the post that was clearly a light hearted retort to yet more McGinty trolling?
I also don't see any particular issue with that post unless you are utterly intent on nit picking. The development tour was absolutely 'the making of MVG' who's career looked to be in the toilet without that initiative. It didn't 'create' him as a player but it did give him a platform to first rediscover his form then take his game to a whole new level. The same goes for Cross. This is just pure preciousness on your part, I'm sorry. Both those players have benefited enormously from those tours as stated.

[Paddy McGinty]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Ex BDO boy smashing up the ranks..........

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

Correct, that was the point where this thread took a turn for the worse, with Murph spreading false facts and a Mod trying to win favour with his heroes. Members here were being fed a biased history on the success of certain players. If you talk to the players you will know that it was no coincidence that MVG jumped up a level at the very moment a certain someone took a break from the PDC circuit. Most players still learn their trade on the BDO circuit and refine it after joining the PDC where they can make the most of the better playing conditions and organisation.

[ifm]

Can someone please quote those who said the PDC 'created' MVG or whoever else because to me this whole 'debate' is knocking down an argument that no one has actually put forward. All any dart org does is give the players a platform - be that through county, super league, the BDO Tour, the Challenge Tour, the Youth Tour and the Main Tour etc. This is a complete strawman debate as far as I can see.

Ex BDO boy smashing up the ranks..........

That tier of the challenge tour really providing a fantastic platform for players to launch their career into the professional ranks.

Was the making of Cross, as was the Development Tour for MVG.

Great to see that both European Championship finalists are fantastic adverts for these PDC initiatives.

These were the quotes to which I responded with my semi-rant

Correct, that was the point where this thread took a turn for the worse, with Murph spreading false facts and a Mod trying to win favour with his heroes. Members here were being fed a biased history on the success of certain players. If you talk to the players you will know that it was no coincidence that MVG jumped up a level at the very moment a certain someone took a break from the PDC circuit. Most players still learn their trade on the BDO circuit and refine it after joining the PDC where they can make the most of the better playing conditions and organisation.

Either they don't know or they are deliberately ignoring it.