PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Heard a rumour? - Post it here
Zapp Brannigan
County Player
Posts: 4584
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Zapp Brannigan »

phil davies wrote:
Mgt wrote:
oche balboa wrote:8 players for "Wildcard" Qualifiers is way too much

De Zwaan, Noppert, Mansell & Aspinall should all be in the Grand Slam of Darts

If there is 4 different qualifiers from the 2 TV events coming up (Gurney, Cullen, Wade, Lewis) for Example then no need for a Wildcard Qualifier, It should be fluid of up to 8 qualifiers and min of none.
Agree, they should go down the list until 24 if there's enough players and only have qualifiers if there are places left. Would strengthen the field as well methinks.
I think everyone agrees with this bar the PDC for some stupid reason
Isn’t it because it became a ranking event, you have to have an open chance for pro tour members to qualify for.

8 seems daft though

I do see the rules of the event changing completely next year.
Ginge
International
Posts: 69208
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:23 am
Location: The West Riding

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Ginge »

Phil is correct, They dont have one-off qualifiers for the Matchplay, or the Grand Prix etc....
Big Jock Knew
User avatar
el_ringo
County Player
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by el_ringo »

Zapp Brannigan wrote:
8 seems daft though
It's not daft as you need 1 per group

Is the qualifying tournament for it seeded ?
Mgt
Superleague Player
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Mgt »

Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
phil davies wrote:
Mgt wrote:
oche balboa wrote:8 players for "Wildcard" Qualifiers is way too much

De Zwaan, Noppert, Mansell & Aspinall should all be in the Grand Slam of Darts

If there is 4 different qualifiers from the 2 TV events coming up (Gurney, Cullen, Wade, Lewis) for Example then no need for a Wildcard Qualifier, It should be fluid of up to 8 qualifiers and min of none.
Agree, they should go down the list until 24 if there's enough players and only have qualifiers if there are places left. Would strengthen the field as well methinks.
I think everyone agrees with this bar the PDC for some stupid reason
Yes, don't think I've ever encountered someone who thought this way makes sense.
There is one reason I see why the PDc would take this route.
8 qualifier would be 8 players who played well that day, so they might be in dome form.

Wade, gurney, and Whitlock have not qualified so far mostly because they are not in form.
I suspect the pdc would want players currently in form that big names on the way down the rankings or players currently not in form.
If Wade gurney and whitlock were throwing quality darts they would have qualified.

Personally i prefer to watch players in form than players in a slump
That's a fine argument in theory, but in practice I don't think it's really worked like that in recent years. What you mostly get is people having one good day winning through a heavily depleted field getting in, whilst others who've actually shown they have what it takes to win are left out.

If you look at last year, it could have been (going down the winners route down to 24):
Lewis
Norris
Cullen
Beaton
D. Webster
K. Anderson
Clayton
+ 1 qualifier

Instead we got:
Norris (would have made it anyway)
D. Webster (same)
James Wilson
Robbie Green
Joe Murnan
Jeffrey de Zwaan
Steve Lennon
Stephen Bunting

I don't think that was a strengthening of the field or a bunch of players in form to be honest.

It could also put some more pressure on top players, especially at the end of the season, to attend tournaments and try to win them seeing this tournament has one of the bigger prize funds on the tour.
The PDC should at the very least give it a try IMHO.
Skewball
International
Posts: 7779
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:41 am
Location: Somerset

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Skewball »

they did it to appease the pdpa when they made it a ranking event, i thought that had been confirmed years ago.
Now whether it needs to be a ranking event is another matter.
Skewball
International
Posts: 7779
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:41 am
Location: Somerset

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Skewball »

phil davies wrote:
Skewball wrote:they did it to appease the pdpa when they made it a ranking event, i thought that had been confirmed years ago.
Now whether it needs to be a ranking event is another matter.
Of course it should be a ranking event and qualifying was fairer for PDC players when it’s given to winners than people who could theoretically play virtually no tour events then rock up to the qualifier and take one of the spots.
well the pdpa disagreed with you and they represent the players. (as far as I recall)
Little Lonely Garry
International
Posts: 11844
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Little Lonely Garry »

Mgt wrote:
Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
phil davies wrote:
Mgt wrote:
Agree, they should go down the list until 24 if there's enough players and only have qualifiers if there are places left. Would strengthen the field as well methinks.
I think everyone agrees with this bar the PDC for some stupid reason
Yes, don't think I've ever encountered someone who thought this way makes sense.
There is one reason I see why the PDc would take this route.
8 qualifier would be 8 players who played well that day, so they might be in dome form.

Wade, gurney, and Whitlock have not qualified so far mostly because they are not in form.
I suspect the pdc would want players currently in form that big names on the way down the rankings or players currently not in form.
If Wade gurney and whitlock were throwing quality darts they would have qualified.

Personally i prefer to watch players in form than players in a slump
That's a fine argument in theory, but in practice I don't think it's really worked like that in recent years. What you mostly get is people having one good day winning through a heavily depleted field getting in, whilst others who've actually shown they have what it takes to win are left out.

If you look at last year, it could have been (going down the winners route down to 24):
Lewis
Norris
Cullen
Beaton
D. Webster
K. Anderson
Clayton
+ 1 qualifier

Instead we got:
Norris (would have made it anyway)
D. Webster (same)
James Wilson
Robbie Green
Joe Murnan
Jeffrey de Zwaan
Steve Lennon
Stephen Bunting

I don't think that was a strengthening of the field or a bunch of players in form to be honest.

It could also put some more pressure on top players, especially at the end of the season, to attend tournaments and try to win them seeing this tournament has one of the bigger prize funds on the tour.
The PDC should at the very least give it a try IMHO.
I am not saying I agree with the idea but merely giving a reason why the PDC might be doing things this way.
I obviously want to watch players in form, however there will be players at the GSoD who qualified almost a year ago, and are no longer in form.

I have no problem with a qualifier for 2 spot, even up to 4 spot, but 8 is far too many, when the reality is the bulk of the 8 qualifiers will be seasons floor players.Floor players are not TV stage players and therein lies the problem.
i am so sorry for my actions these last ten years, i'm going through a tough time
User avatar
ssjsa
International
Posts: 24565
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: uddingston, glasgow
Contact:

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by ssjsa »

Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
phil davies wrote:
I think everyone agrees with this bar the PDC for some stupid reason
Yes, don't think I've ever encountered someone who thought this way makes sense.
There is one reason I see why the PDc would take this route.
8 qualifier would be 8 players who played well that day, so they might be in dome form.

Wade, gurney, and Whitlock have not qualified so far mostly because they are not in form.
I suspect the pdc would want players currently in form that big names on the way down the rankings or players currently not in form.
If Wade gurney and whitlock were throwing quality darts they would have qualified.

Personally i prefer to watch players in form than players in a slump


That's a fine argument in theory, but in practice I don't think it's really worked like that in recent years. What you mostly get is people having one good day winning through a heavily depleted field getting in, whilst others who've actually shown they have what it takes to win are left out.

If you look at last year, it could have been (going down the winners route down to 24):
Lewis
Norris
Cullen
Beaton
D. Webster
K. Anderson
Clayton
+ 1 qualifier

Instead we got:
Norris (would have made it anyway)
D. Webster (same)
James Wilson
Robbie Green
Joe Murnan
Jeffrey de Zwaan
Steve Lennon
Stephen Bunting

I don't think that was a strengthening of the field or a bunch of players in form to be honest.

It could also put some more pressure on top players, especially at the end of the season, to attend tournaments and try to win them seeing this tournament has one of the bigger prize funds on the tour.
The PDC should at the very least give it a try IMHO.
I am not saying I agree with the idea but merely giving a reason why the PDC might be doing things this way.
I obviously want to watch players in form, however there will be players at the GSoD who qualified almost a year ago, and are no longer in form.

I have no problem with a qualifier for 2 spot, even up to 4 spot, but 8 is far too many, when the reality is the bulk of the 8 qualifiers will be seasons floor players.Floor players are not TV stage players and therein lies the problem.
Who has hacked the account of the poster Garry Murphy. :grin:

Only joking, as I agree completely with your post. Maximum of 4 qualifiers would be sufficient to justify the GSOD being a ranking tournament. :DDDD:
Image

2023 World Championship Prediction Competition winner
2019 Q School Prediction Competition winner
PL 2019 Weeks 9-16 Prediction Competition winner
PL 2019 Prediction Competition Cash Prize winner
Skewball
International
Posts: 7779
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:41 am
Location: Somerset

Re: RE: Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Skewball »

phil davies wrote:
Skewball wrote:
phil davies wrote:
Skewball wrote:they did it to appease the pdpa when they made it a ranking event, i thought that had been confirmed years ago.
Now whether it needs to be a ranking event is another matter.
Of course it should be a ranking event and qualifying was fairer for PDC players when it’s given to winners than people who could theoretically play virtually no tour events then rock up to the qualifier and take one of the spots.
well the pdpa disagreed with you and they represent the players. (as far as I recall)
That’s because I presume each memeber gets a vote. So all the players with no confidence in their own ability to win anything thought I know we should give 8 spots to a terrible qualifier where all the very top players will have already not be in.

The PDC needs to change this it ends up with some horrible qualifiers whilst people who were actually good enough to win a proper event miss out so the likes of Nathan Derry can take a spot.
I'm quite sure there was not a player wide vote.
I don't have a problem with opening up a tournament to a few potential new tv names. Generally the best players are there already.
Mgt
Superleague Player
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Mgt »

Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
Garry Murphy wrote:
Mgt wrote:
phil davies wrote:
I think everyone agrees with this bar the PDC for some stupid reason
Yes, don't think I've ever encountered someone who thought this way makes sense.
There is one reason I see why the PDc would take this route.
8 qualifier would be 8 players who played well that day, so they might be in dome form.

Wade, gurney, and Whitlock have not qualified so far mostly because they are not in form.
I suspect the pdc would want players currently in form that big names on the way down the rankings or players currently not in form.
If Wade gurney and whitlock were throwing quality darts they would have qualified.

Personally i prefer to watch players in form than players in a slump
That's a fine argument in theory, but in practice I don't think it's really worked like that in recent years. What you mostly get is people having one good day winning through a heavily depleted field getting in, whilst others who've actually shown they have what it takes to win are left out.

If you look at last year, it could have been (going down the winners route down to 24):
Lewis
Norris
Cullen
Beaton
D. Webster
K. Anderson
Clayton
+ 1 qualifier

Instead we got:
Norris (would have made it anyway)
D. Webster (same)
James Wilson
Robbie Green
Joe Murnan
Jeffrey de Zwaan
Steve Lennon
Stephen Bunting

I don't think that was a strengthening of the field or a bunch of players in form to be honest.

It could also put some more pressure on top players, especially at the end of the season, to attend tournaments and try to win them seeing this tournament has one of the bigger prize funds on the tour.
The PDC should at the very least give it a try IMHO.
I am not saying I agree with the idea but merely giving a reason why the PDC might be doing things this way.
I obviously want to watch players in form, however there will be players at the GSoD who qualified almost a year ago, and are no longer in form.

I have no problem with a qualifier for 2 spot, even up to 4 spot, but 8 is far too many, when the reality is the bulk of the 8 qualifiers will be seasons floor players.Floor players are not TV stage players and therein lies the problem.
I realise you don't necessarily agree with the argument for having qualifiers and thought about that argument myself, I just think the pdpa got it wrong in this occasion.

Letting the 24 spots be filled up by tournament winners when possible will improve the standard of the field IMHO. Plus it's a nice and unique way of qualifying.

They've improved the qualifying for majors in the last few years I feel with the new qualifying conditions for the European Championship and Players championship finals. It throws up more diverse fields and interesting seedings.

I'd go even further with the GSOD perhaps and let the seeding into the different pots be decided by where the tournament you qualified by stands in the qualifying list. So Rob Cross as WC would be number one this year, MvG as defending champion would be 2 etcetera. So a top player qualifying through a European tour or players championship event might end up in pot three (instead of pot one based on the OoM).

Think this could throw up interesting combinations in the group phase.
Little Lonely Garry
International
Posts: 11844
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Little Lonely Garry »

Mgt wrote:
I realise you don't necessarily agree with the argument for having qualifiers and thought about that argument myself, I just think the pdpa got it wrong in this occasion.

Letting the 24 spots be filled up by tournament winners when possible will improve the standard of the field IMHO. Plus it's a nice and unique way of qualifying.

They've improved the qualifying for majors in the last few years I feel with the new qualifying conditions for the European Championship and Players championship finals. It throws up more diverse fields and interesting seedings.

I'd go even further with the GSOD perhaps and let the seeding into the different pots be decided by where the tournament you qualified by stands in the qualifying list. So Rob Cross as WC would be number one this year, MvG as defending champion would be 2 etcetera. So a top player qualifying through a European tour or players championship event might end up in pot three (instead of pot one based on the OoM).

Think this could throw up interesting combinations in the group phase.
As a wade fan i would like to see him at the GSoD on the basis that he reached euro tour finals, losing one to mvg.
However that is not the criteria, and he knew that and had a YEAR to make sure of his qualification and failed.

Should failure be rewarded ?
Last weekend when Wade was in the floor champs that contained no Ando, MVG, Wright, Barney etc, and saw cross go out early , Wade was still awful and could not take advantage of it,
Same applies to gurney and Whitlock and the other "name players" that simply were not good enough.

That said not only do I not agree with 8 qualifiers, if I had my way I would not have the 8 bdo players either.
Uncle Barry should use the Olly Croft line and say "we dont owe the players a living".
i am so sorry for my actions these last ten years, i'm going through a tough time
User avatar
Wubbalubbadubdub
County Player
Posts: 3289
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:57 am
Location: Lancs

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Wubbalubbadubdub »

For a laugh I would hold back the BDO players money until they signed a contract agreeing to go to Q school ;)
Zeyes
International
Posts: 9210
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Zeyes »

Mgt wrote:I realise you don't necessarily agree with the argument for having qualifiers and thought about that argument myself, I just think the pdpa got it wrong in this occasion.

Letting the 24 spots be filled up by tournament winners when possible will improve the standard of the field IMHO. Plus it's a nice and unique way of qualifying.

They've improved the qualifying for majors in the last few years I feel with the new qualifying conditions for the European Championship and Players championship finals. It throws up more diverse fields and interesting seedings.
Not to mention that all main tour entry fees have been abolished now. Zero need to use GSOD spots as a carrot / hand-out to the rank and file players anymore, IMHO.
Mgt
Superleague Player
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Mgt »

Zeyes wrote:
Mgt wrote:I realise you don't necessarily agree with the argument for having qualifiers and thought about that argument myself, I just think the pdpa got it wrong in this occasion.

Letting the 24 spots be filled up by tournament winners when possible will improve the standard of the field IMHO. Plus it's a nice and unique way of qualifying.

They've improved the qualifying for majors in the last few years I feel with the new qualifying conditions for the European Championship and Players championship finals. It throws up more diverse fields and interesting seedings.
Not to mention that all main tour entry fees have been abolished now. Zero need to use GSOD spots as a carrot / hand-out to the rank and file players anymore, IMHO.
Indeed, if you want to be in the GSOD, win a tournament or be the runner up in a big one. If those don't reach 24 you might get a qualifier and otherwise tough titties. That's how I would like to see it.
User avatar
ssjsa
International
Posts: 24565
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:02 pm
Location: uddingston, glasgow
Contact:

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by ssjsa »

Burton DeWitt
@bsd987

Today was probably the worst possible day for anyone on the Grand Slam bubble. Unless the final is Rob Cross v Gerwyn Price, we'll see at least one person fall out of a provisional spot in Wolverhampton.
Image

2023 World Championship Prediction Competition winner
2019 Q School Prediction Competition winner
PL 2019 Weeks 9-16 Prediction Competition winner
PL 2019 Prediction Competition Cash Prize winner
DavidB
International
Posts: 7158
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:23 am

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by DavidB »

ssjsa wrote:Burton DeWitt
@bsd987

Today was probably the worst possible day for anyone on the Grand Slam bubble. Unless the final is Rob Cross v Gerwyn Price, we'll see at least one person fall out of a provisional spot in Wolverhampton.


Who is in line to drop out?
Ginge
International
Posts: 69208
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:23 am
Location: The West Riding

Re: RE: Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by Ginge »

DavidB wrote:
ssjsa wrote:Burton DeWitt
@bsd987

Today was probably the worst possible day for anyone on the Grand Slam bubble. Unless the final is Rob Cross v Gerwyn Price, we'll see at least one person fall out of a provisional spot in Wolverhampton.


Who is in line to drop out?
King and then Ratty.

King will be very very lucky to get out of this event now with his spot intact tbh. Too many big names been dumped out.
Big Jock Knew
DavidB
International
Posts: 7158
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:23 am

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by DavidB »

Thanks and yes you’d think it’d be unlikely but then again a Cross vs Price final isn’t out of the question.

Has King played in every GSoD??
PVDarts501
Steady Sixties
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 9:39 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by PVDarts501 »

DavidB wrote:Thanks and yes you’d think it’d be unlikely but then again a Cross vs Price final isn’t out of the question.

Has King played in every GSoD??
Missed last two.
oche balboa
International
Posts: 18554
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:10 pm

Re: PDC Grand Slam of Darts- 10th-18th November 2018- Wolverhampton

Post by oche balboa »

Has missed the last 2 GSODs
TSOD World Grand Prix Prediction winner 2017.

"Who gives a shit" - Borespark about every Darts event since 2021
Post Reply