..have been submitted.

they are on Companies House as usual , a set of accounts for BDO and BDO Enterprises, the latter are usually the more interesting.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

FACTS:

As they now submit 'small company' accounts these days sadly the disclose requirements are very low and you don't get a P&L which is unfortunate as you can't see what Income is doing.

So the only headlines are that they made a £25k loss (Enterprises) and have £6k more in the bank than last year (across both Companies). A total of £658k.

GUESSING

Now what is potentially interesting is whether that cash includes ALL the Ch4 money that they should have received for the two years (rumoured £320k), or are CH4 paying it in two instalments to either the BDO or (via Sportotal). Obviously if its the former then its not good news as they stood still in cash despite receiving 2 years of TV money, or if its the latter then fair enough, they are still living hand to mouth, balancing the books and spending what they receive.

The creditors does not give us an obvious clue. In theory if they received 2 years worth then they should have posted half of it to deferred Income in the Balance Sheet, but that doesn't seem to be the case. (only £100k in Other Creditors which could be anything). Which means either they have only received half or that they have received it all and posted it all to Income (which they shouldn't do but since the Accounts are not audited they could get away with). Assuming they have sensible accoutants then the disclosure suggests they should have only received half the money so far (obviously the 2nd year of Ch4/Lakeside - 2018 - will fall into next years accounts)

Anyway, I wont go on as I will get too much abuse from the usual suspects and I'm not playing their silly games any more.

and in 5,4,3,2,1

Didnt Sportotal get it all in one go? I assumed that was the conclusion looking at their accounts.

Ginge wrote:Didnt Sportotal get it all in one go? I assumed that was the conclusion looking at their accounts.

I've just had a look in their accounts and it looks unlikely that they did receive it all and passed half to BDO. They have £156k in creditors which could be what they owe BDO for second year. But, £20k of that they owe in tax, and the rest is split between 'trade' and 'other' which you would not do if it was owed to one Company. They only have £107k in the Bank and so their company is technically insolvent as well by the way.
So the odds are CH4 have paid in instalments (when the accounts were prepared). If they paid it all then I don't think BDO have accounted for it correctly - and have effectively made a much bigger loss in the year.

Can we split the posts clearly into what is known for sure, and then what is being guessed

The Jolly Man wrote:Can we split the posts clearly into what is known for sure, and then what is being guessed

That happens already.
ifm knows for sure, everyone else is just guessing

The Jolly Man wrote:Can we split the posts clearly into what is known for sure, and then what is being guessed

It is quite clearly split in my post. I will edit it for the hard of reading.

Skewball wrote:

The Jolly Man wrote:Can we split the posts clearly into what is known for sure, and then what is being guessed

It is quite clearly split in my post. I will edit it for the hard of reading.

So the bdo are not blowing all their money as sone seem to think? Not heading for financial ruin?

They have been treading water for a few years now, its accepted knowledge they blew the C4 money on the WDT.

devosteve wrote:So the bdo are not blowing all their money as sone seem to think? Not heading for financial ruin?

Funnily enough its mostly a few people on 'Real' Fanatics, not least Howard M, who seem to think that is the case. I think it was a valid query that the WDT seemed to be a drain but on the whole is being just about managed.
So no, it would seem they are perfectly able to balance the books each year (unless they received all Ch4 money in one go which I don't think is the case). I do think that when they come to have to update the Lakeside stage set up (or wherever they go) could put a dent in the reserves.

Ginge wrote:They have been treading water for a few years now, its accepted knowledge they blew the C4 money on the WDT.

Indeed, No Ch4 money should in theory mean no more WDT in its current guise if they want to continue to balance the books.

Thinking about the WDT, because in 2018 the event is being held in June, and therefore in the 2019 accounts, it means when the 2018 accounts are published next year it will have the 2nd year of Ch4/Lakeside money but no WDT at all so it will test the theory that the Ch4 money was spent on WDT because all other things being equal next years accounts should show a decent surplus.
Unless of course the move into June is deliberate and that the CH4 money is all included in the accounts just published, it would mean the 2018 accounts would break even again and push the funding of this years WDT into the 2019 accounts by which time they may have found a way to pay for it. Clever.

(this is all just speculation and why we all like to post here )

devosteve wrote:So the bdo are not blowing all their money as sone seem to think? Not heading for financial ruin?

The two arnt equal.

They are balancing their books year on year, but that is on the assumption that

A - They have a very good TV deal for their biggest tournament

and

B - Someone is paying the prize money for the majors (Winmau for the Masters, Lakeside for the Worlds)

The worry people have is if either or both of those stop they can blow all their cash reserves very quickly. Its already been said by people that C4 wont speak to the current board, if thats true the BDO are already down £150,000 for the year compared to the last 2 years.

Just take the WDT as a prime example. With no TV deal and no sponsor its £100K straight down the drain on a tornament that has no way of bringing money in.

So a solvent company with large cash reserves, well done the BDO!!

Zapp Brannigan wrote: Its already been said by people that C4 wont speak to the current board.

Which is why they deal with Sportotal, no?

Ginge wrote:

Zapp Brannigan wrote: Its already been said by people that C4 wont speak to the current board.

Which is why they deal with Sportotal, no?

Howard has done another essay on fanatics where he says he has no insider knowledge at all about the C4 lakeside deal, i think he buggered up or thinks he did.

Has anyone got the power to dissolve the business and who would get the "alleged" 600k ?

Wubbalubbadubdub wrote:Has anyone got the power to dissolve the business and who would get the "alleged" 600k ?

"alleged" £600k? Its sitting in the Bank. It exists !

Anyway, assuming the original Memorandum still holds (no reason why not, its only the 'Articles' that have since been updated.) then the answer is quite clear:

"'If upon winding up or dissolution......any property.....shall not be paid or distributed among the members of the Company but shall be given or transferred to some other Club, Society, institution or organisation being a non-profit making nature"

make of that what you will.

The cash might exist but in the event of a wind up who knows what other liabilities might come to light.