WDT 2018 - the post mortem

[Mgt]

Hi.

Long time lurker, not a huge poster, but reading some of these comments today......

First off, I watched both PDC/BDO this weekend. And to be honest, the more darts the better. Regardless of code.

But to be honest, I struggle to see how this weekend could be good for darts as a whole, never mind the BDO.

If you stumble upon a product, just watching it for 2-3 minutes is going to be the difference. I did this is 1993 with the BDO worlds and instantly i was hooked. To a casual fan, or someone who used to watch the darts, you would see the crowd and just turn it off. The impression it gave was appalling. I thought that the standard of slme of the games was on a par with some of the PDC games this weekend, and the drama/closeness in some games kept me watching for sure.

The fact to me looks pretty clear, until the promotion of these events is up to scratch (maybe less events, marketed a full 3-4 months in advance would be an idea) then it makes no difference who is playing in them, no-ones going to turn up to an event. If that continues, then TV companies can’t sell ads, and they won’t pay for the product.

Someone mentioned earlier maximising someone like Fallon Sherrock and I 100% agree. She is the poster girl that girls growing up could relate to, to at least grow a new audience or increase participation levels.

Ditto for Glen Durrant, get him on TV actually showing his personality rather than asking him to tell people to come down as the crowd is poor, if the perception is that it’s rubbish, people will just believe it. BBC used to do a fantastic job in the worlds telling you more about the players (I wish sky would do it more) and to make people see these people as someone they can relate to and get behind.

Market the product better, market the players better, and at least give it a chance to succeed. At the moment, it seems like there are too many voices and people seem to want to score points rather than wanting the product to succeed.

A better BDO means a better PDC. And in truth, the balance of power has shifted in darts long ago and is pretty much irreversible, but theres still plenty of players/administrators who would make a good living out of darts.

Good post, nice to get some input from members who don't post often on the forums.

[Ginge]

Hi.

Long time lurker, not a huge poster, but reading some of these comments today......

First off, I watched both PDC/BDO this weekend. And to be honest, the more darts the better. Regardless of code.

But to be honest, I struggle to see how this weekend could be good for darts as a whole, never mind the BDO.

If you stumble upon a product, just watching it for 2-3 minutes is going to be the difference. I did this is 1993 with the BDO worlds and instantly i was hooked. To a casual fan, or someone who used to watch the darts, you would see the crowd and just turn it off. The impression it gave was appalling. I thought that the standard of slme of the games was on a par with some of the PDC games this weekend, and the drama/closeness in some games kept me watching for sure.

The fact to me looks pretty clear, until the promotion of these events is up to scratch (maybe less events, marketed a full 3-4 months in advance would be an idea) then it makes no difference who is playing in them, no-ones going to turn up to an event. If that continues, then TV companies can’t sell ads, and they won’t pay for the product.

Someone mentioned earlier maximising someone like Fallon Sherrock and I 100% agree. She is the poster girl that girls growing up could relate to, to at least grow a new audience or increase participation levels.

Ditto for Glen Durrant, get him on TV actually showing his personality rather than asking him to tell people to come down as the crowd is poor, if the perception is that it’s rubbish, people will just believe it. BBC used to do a fantastic job in the worlds telling you more about the players (I wish sky would do it more) and to make people see these people as someone they can relate to and get behind.

Market the product better, market the players better, and at least give it a chance to succeed. At the moment, it seems like there are too many voices and people seem to want to score points rather than wanting the product to succeed.

A better BDO means a better PDC. And in truth, the balance of power has shifted in darts long ago and is pretty much irreversible, but theres still plenty of players/administrators who would make a good living out of darts.

Good post, nice to get some input from members who don't post often on the forums.

It's as if people who have recently left the forum had put them off posting.

Or something.

[Mgt]

Hi.

Long time lurker, not a huge poster, but reading some of these comments today......

First off, I watched both PDC/BDO this weekend. And to be honest, the more darts the better. Regardless of code.

But to be honest, I struggle to see how this weekend could be good for darts as a whole, never mind the BDO.

If you stumble upon a product, just watching it for 2-3 minutes is going to be the difference. I did this is 1993 with the BDO worlds and instantly i was hooked. To a casual fan, or someone who used to watch the darts, you would see the crowd and just turn it off. The impression it gave was appalling. I thought that the standard of slme of the games was on a par with some of the PDC games this weekend, and the drama/closeness in some games kept me watching for sure.

The fact to me looks pretty clear, until the promotion of these events is up to scratch (maybe less events, marketed a full 3-4 months in advance would be an idea) then it makes no difference who is playing in them, no-ones going to turn up to an event. If that continues, then TV companies can’t sell ads, and they won’t pay for the product.

Someone mentioned earlier maximising someone like Fallon Sherrock and I 100% agree. She is the poster girl that girls growing up could relate to, to at least grow a new audience or increase participation levels.

Ditto for Glen Durrant, get him on TV actually showing his personality rather than asking him to tell people to come down as the crowd is poor, if the perception is that it’s rubbish, people will just believe it. BBC used to do a fantastic job in the worlds telling you more about the players (I wish sky would do it more) and to make people see these people as someone they can relate to and get behind.

Market the product better, market the players better, and at least give it a chance to succeed. At the moment, it seems like there are too many voices and people seem to want to score points rather than wanting the product to succeed.

A better BDO means a better PDC. And in truth, the balance of power has shifted in darts long ago and is pretty much irreversible, but theres still plenty of players/administrators who would make a good living out of darts.

Good post, nice to get some input from members who don't post often on the forums.

It's as if people who have recently left the forum had put them off posting.

Or something.

People returning in their droves now Lee's back, can't be a coincidence.

[ssjsa]

Hi.

Long time lurker, not a huge poster, but reading some of these comments today......

First off, I watched both PDC/BDO this weekend. And to be honest, the more darts the better. Regardless of code.

But to be honest, I struggle to see how this weekend could be good for darts as a whole, never mind the BDO.

If you stumble upon a product, just watching it for 2-3 minutes is going to be the difference. I did this is 1993 with the BDO worlds and instantly i was hooked. To a casual fan, or someone who used to watch the darts, you would see the crowd and just turn it off. The impression it gave was appalling. I thought that the standard of slme of the games was on a par with some of the PDC games this weekend, and the drama/closeness in some games kept me watching for sure.

The fact to me looks pretty clear, until the promotion of these events is up to scratch (maybe less events, marketed a full 3-4 months in advance would be an idea) then it makes no difference who is playing in them, no-ones going to turn up to an event. If that continues, then TV companies can’t sell ads, and they won’t pay for the product.

Someone mentioned earlier maximising someone like Fallon Sherrock and I 100% agree. She is the poster girl that girls growing up could relate to, to at least grow a new audience or increase participation levels.

Ditto for Glen Durrant, get him on TV actually showing his personality rather than asking him to tell people to come down as the crowd is poor, if the perception is that it’s rubbish, people will just believe it. BBC used to do a fantastic job in the worlds telling you more about the players (I wish sky would do it more) and to make people see these people as someone they can relate to and get behind.

Market the product better, market the players better, and at least give it a chance to succeed. At the moment, it seems like there are too many voices and people seem to want to score points rather than wanting the product to succeed.

A better BDO means a better PDC. And in truth, the balance of power has shifted in darts long ago and is pretty much irreversible, but theres still plenty of players/administrators who would make a good living out of darts.

Great 1st post Jonesy. Talking loads of sense and articulating yourself in a great manner.

Are you a multiple of me.

[Jonesy487]

Thanks All

As I say, first ever post on here. Not particularly sure on the politics of it all, but it does seem to get pretty personal pretty quickly......

Keeping it back on-topic, one other thing that the BDO really could do with is a fresh new team presenting/commentating these shows. I think Dan Dawson does a great job for the PDC and nothing against the likes of John Gwynne et al, but its people who have been dropped/criticised on other networks, hardly gives off the value that you’re the ones to watcg when you pick up the competitions cast-offs.

Anyone agree/disagree on any of my points?

[Skewball]

Thanks All

As I say, first ever post on here. Not particularly sure on the politics of it all, but it does seem to get pretty personal pretty quickly......

Keeping it back on-topic, one other thing that the BDO really could do with is a fresh new team presenting/commentating these shows. I think Dan Dawson does a great job for the PDC and nothing against the likes of John Gwynne et al, but its people who have been dropped/criticised on other networks, hardly gives off the value that you’re the ones to watcg when you pick up the competitions cast-offs.

Anyone agree/disagree on any of my points?

Completely agree. I like Gwynne but it just adds to the old school feel.
And the point that a casual viewer flicking onto it will be put off is spot on. No matter how good the darts it just looked boring unless you are a darts geek like us.

[Jonesy487]

The first thing I thought of when I saw the crowd (or lack of it) was what was the reaction going to be like on here.....

But at least make it look big time, the production values were poor at best...

[Zapp Brannigan]

Thanks All

As I say, first ever post on here. Not particularly sure on the politics of it all, but it does seem to get pretty personal pretty quickly......

Keeping it back on-topic, one other thing that the BDO really could do with is a fresh new team presenting/commentating these shows. I think Dan Dawson does a great job for the PDC and nothing against the likes of John Gwynne et al, but its people who have been dropped/criticised on other networks, hardly gives off the value that you’re the ones to watcg when you pick up the competitions cast-offs.

Anyone agree/disagree on any of my points?

I thought Gwynne was terrible in the final, but I dont know how much of that was down to a 73 year bloke working non stop for 5 days, couple of times he just straight up forgot what he was talking about mid sentence.

I cant stand the PDC commentators but if theres one thing they do well to a casual fan is create drama when 9 times out of 10 there is none. Backed by Mardle talking complete and utter bollocks but again to the casual fan it seems like hes talking about the technical side of the game which is what your casual fan likes (go look at how cricket commentators over analyise)

I really dont know who the BDO could get at this point as its yet another case of the PDC tying everyone down. Only one is Rawling and he is busy as hell.

[Mgt]

Gwynne is hit and miss for me, sometimes the way he reminisces on and on about totally unrelated stuff makes me smirk, but there are times when his endless drivel gets annoying. And some of his mannerisms like "does/can it/he" repeated three times progressively softer when someone is going for a double get boring pretty fast.

If he could find some more balance he'd be quite good.

[DavidB]

Thanks All

As I say, first ever post on here. Not particularly sure on the politics of it all, but it does seem to get pretty personal pretty quickly......

Keeping it back on-topic, one other thing that the BDO really could do with is a fresh new team presenting/commentating these shows. I think Dan Dawson does a great job for the PDC and nothing against the likes of John Gwynne et al, but its people who have been dropped/criticised on other networks, hardly gives off the value that you’re the ones to watcg when you pick up the competitions cast-offs.

Anyone agree/disagree on any of my points?

Completely agree. I like Gwynne but it just adds to the old school feel.
And the point that a casual viewer flicking onto it will be put off is spot on. No matter how good the darts it just looked boring unless you are a darts geek like us.

Clive Everton was unfairly ditched from the BBC and it’s still great to listen to him on ITV now and it’s the same with Gwynne, hearing that kind of voice is not old school but very comforting to the viewer and their knowledge is second to none.

Shame really that in sports broadcasting these days its ex players who seem to get the commentating roles and whilst some are good, some aren’t.

[Robson]

I love Gwynney - No one knows more about darts and darting history - Hes great commentating on BDO because they give him an open mic - SKY kept him on his leesh too much -

Robson

[Jonesy487]

I think the problem isn’t John Gwynne (didn’t catch the final so couldn’t comment on his performance) but just the perception that it’s the old school commentator, and to any lapsed darts fan it’s who the PDC used to use. Almost like settling for 2nd best.

Sid Waddell started somewhere, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility for someone with a passion for darts, to make the game sound interesting. A presenter the same. Make it look different to what the PDC are doing. The product looks better, people will go, marketed right and that’s the key really (how many people watch a PDC event and say they want to be there for the atmosphere?)

I know people will talk about the averages but darts first boom was when players were averaging much the same as the BDO does now. The more these guys play in big competitions the better they will get. The WDT looked like a glorified floor competition to be honest with you.

[malcy93]

I think there are some great ideas on building profile.

As said Fallon Sherrock is a potential superstars for darts the BDO need to act before Hearn dives in to sign her up.
She is female, young and attractive plus a damn good darts player. Was amazed to see her hit averages in the 90s first time i can remember that from a female player.

The BDO should be getting her, Anastasia, Durrant, Montgomery etc. but not the old staggers on the likes of the C4 Saturday Brunch or BBC Question of Sport ideally one or so a month to keep the BDO in mind before Lakeside. If you want mainstream try and get Fallon on the One Show on BBC1 this week. BDO should say she would do that and Blue Peter on CBBC to get teenage girls to play darts. So play to political correct box ticking for female,sport at the BBC, whilst women’s darts probably isn’t a conflict with the BBC’s deal with PDC.

With PDC adding two female places at WC to bugger up BDO next thing Hearn should do is to sign up four female players to the Premier League next season and then rotate them so you have one female match per night and then the women’s final between the men’s semis and final on final night. PDC are then seen to box tick female darts and as it’s an exbo the BDO can’t do anything about it. Would pick the female players all on invites or possibly the two WC qualifiers and two invites on standard of darts but also attractiveness given it’s for a PL audience. So none of the overweight oldies we saw at WDT. So would mean guaranteed places for the like of Anastasia and Fallon.

[Robson]

I think there are some great ideas on building profile.

As said Fallon Sherrock is a potential superstars for darts the BDO need to act before Hearn dives in to sign her up.
She is female, young and attractive plus a damn good darts player. Was amazed to see her hit averages in the 90s first time i can remember that from a female player.

The BDO should be getting her, Anastasia, Durrant, Montgomery etc. but not the old staggers on the likes of the C4 Saturday Brunch or BBC Question of Sport ideally one or so a month to keep the BDO in mind before Lakeside. If you want mainstream try and get Fallon on the One Show on BBC1 this week. BDO should say she would do that and Blue Peter on CBBC to get teenage girls to play darts. So play to political correct box ticking for female,sport at the BBC, whilst women’s darts probably isn’t a conflict with the BBC’s deal with PDC.

With PDC adding two female places at WC to bugger up BDO next thing Hearn should do is to sign up four female players to the Premier League next season and then rotate them so you have one female match per night and then the women’s final between the men’s semis and final on final night. PDC are then seen to box tick female darts and as it’s an exbo the BDO can’t do anything about it. Would pick the female players all on invites or possibly the two WC qualifiers and two invites on standard of darts but also attractiveness given it’s for a PL audience. So none of the overweight oldies we saw at WDT. So would mean guaranteed places for the like of Anastasia and Fallon.

Great post -

Robson

[Jonesy487]

Great post malcy!

I think with Barry Hearn’s announcement today, he’s probably targeting Fallon Sherrock as someone he can market. The timing of her win is pretty good!

Some great points on what to try and do. The youth audience, like a Blue Peter, is totally attainable. They see her on TV, ask to go to the event, and might just love it.....

At least something different would be better than the current state.

[Black Velvet]

two invites on standard of darts but also attractiveness

[Mgt]

two invites on standard of darts but also attractiveness

Yeah I feel the attractiveness angle is a bit 80's. However I get your point, would just change it to charisma instead of old. A player who shows some emotion on stage and gets the crowd behind her could do wonders promotion wise.

[malcy93]

two invites on standard of darts but also attractiveness

Yeah I feel the attractiveness angle is a bit 80's. However I get your point, would just change it to charisma instead of old. A player who shows some emotion on stage and gets the crowd behind her could do wonders promotion wise.

I agree not necessarily attractiveness given many of the male players are overweight tubs of lard. Cross trying to morph into Lewis or Bunting for example.

The passion or charisma makes sense. So not the idiocy of a Mardle or Wright just show some character the crowd at WC or PL can get behind. This BDO belief you must play darts in silence just doesn’t get the crowd at the event or look attractive for TV. You need some life and energy from them. Hearn said the pictures of the crowd at the WC is what sells overseas TV rights and not the quality of the darts.

[Moongoose McQueeen]

If they could get away with it they'd hold a beauty pageant for the 2 ladies spots at Ally Pally.

[nikkiboy]

If they could get away with it they'd hold a beauty pageant for the 2 ladies spots at Ally Pally.

That's Steve Beaton qualified then