The Jacklins have done it

[nikkiboy]

But it can't sing and dance and it can't walk

[Moongoose McQueeen]

If Des reads this I'd like to personally congratulate him and wish him all the very best. It is imperative that you halt the slide.

I am offering you my services, if I can help in any way it would be my pleasure.

Im sure Des would love to have such an untrustworthy and snide twat such as yourself on board, Ships sinking anyways so may as well have you and your forum buddies on board to add some ballast to help it sink that little bit quicker!!

Fuck yerself

[nikkiboy]

Get a room you two

[Bruce Terrett]

But it can't sing and dance and it can't walk

Showing your age there, Nick.
(And your dodgy taste in music!)

[nikkiboy]

But it can't sing and dance and it can't walk

Showing your age there, Nick.
(And your dodgy taste in music!)

I'm being lectured on music by a metalhead!

How's things boyo?

[Zapp Brannigan]

Still cannot believe the Jacklins are popular

The thing is Oche is that from anyone that has any dealings with them that I know they are very nice people to their friends, they look after people. You only have to look at what they offer anyone that plays for lincs, you can pretty much do the tour for free with them.

The problems come because they still settle their differences with slagging matches and they, and their friends, are not afraid to get into an argument and let it boil over. You just cant do that these days.

I still actually think as a leader of the delegates and a chairperson of that group of people Des would do a good job, as he has ideas, people will listen to him and I think that group of people needs someone who isnt afraid to start shouting and screaming at them when it needs be.

The problem is going to be the professional side of the BDO.

Can you imagine anyone going in with that attitude with a major sponsor or potential broadcaster? and not only that its not the 90s anymore. Companies want proposals completely costed, they want to know the benefit they are getting out of it and they want to know all about social interactions, people they can connect with online, even how many likes and shares you are getting on twitter (People may laugh at that but Man Utds last quarterly business call spent 20 minutes talking about how many people they reach on twitter now). There is nobody remotely involved in the BDO that can answer those questions and if they did the answers speak for themselves. PDC had the names of darts players trending throughout the UK during their games in the matchplay, the BDO struggle to get 100 likes on anything they post.

The absolutely massive thing is Winmau walking away. They could lean on them a lot for business help and for money, the fact they don't have that now means they need to find someone that can deal with that side of the game fast, like within the next month fast, because if they dont televise the worlds its game over. The few people left interested in the BDO will completely lose interest if they think the worlds has ended.

Not televising it is bigger than moving from Lakeside. If its still at lakeside but streamed to nobody or on freesports then its going to be 10 times worse than if it was at say Preston but on a major TV channel

[Ginge]

Freesports aren't going to pay for a 9 day outside broadcast on the level needed, or even foot half the costs. They film nothing themselves and take streams from the hosts.

John Parrack put the likely costs of the OB on here once, think he said £400k for the costs of doing it.

So another thing to consider there.

[Paddy McGinty]

Chris Mason - World champs will be at Lakeside this year, however the total prize money will not be met by Potter, there wont be any mainstream broadcaster, and there wont be a sponsor who will pick up the tab for a mainstream broadcaster.

According to BDOF Potter has said he wont cover the prize fund if its not televised on a major station. If thats the case the BDO have to cover it as it was part of the contracts they got people to sign last year.

Well its nice to be right occasionally, hey Paddy (and Ginge), any luck ?

? I think you will still be wrong, should still be at Lakey.......

That's not what I said as you well know.

Yes it was....beep beep

[fling]

Freesports aren't going to pay for a 9 day outside broadcast on the level needed, or even foot half the costs. They film nothing themselves and take streams from the hosts.

John Parrack put the likely costs of the OB on here once, think he said £400k for the costs of doing it.

So another thing to consider there.

Freesports is now available on Virgin so at least I can look forward to many BDO televised events on that channel.

[Ginge]

Freesports aren't going to pay for a 9 day outside broadcast on the level needed, or even foot half the costs. They film nothing themselves and take streams from the hosts.

John Parrack put the likely costs of the OB on here once, think he said £400k for the costs of doing it.

So another thing to consider there.

Freesports is now available on Virgin so at least I can look forward to many BDO televised events on that channel.

They aren't going to pay the costs to cover half a nine day OB though, if Lakeside ends up on there it will be someone else covering the broadcast costs...

[Double Flops]

Still cannot believe the Jacklins are popular

The thing is Oche is that from anyone that has any dealings with them that I know they are very nice people to their friends, they look after people. You only have to look at what they offer anyone that plays for lincs, you can pretty much do the tour for free with them.

The problems come because they still settle their differences with slagging matches and they, and their friends, are not afraid to get into an argument and let it boil over. You just cant do that these days.

I still actually think as a leader of the delegates and a chairperson of that group of people Des would do a good job, as he has ideas, people will listen to him and I think that group of people needs someone who isnt afraid to start shouting and screaming at them when it needs be.

The problem is going to be the professional side of the BDO.

Can you imagine anyone going in with that attitude with a major sponsor or potential broadcaster? and not only that its not the 90s anymore. Companies want proposals completely costed, they want to know the benefit they are getting out of it and they want to know all about social interactions, people they can connect with online, even how many likes and shares you are getting on twitter (People may laugh at that but Man Utds last quarterly business call spent 20 minutes talking about how many people they reach on twitter now). There is nobody remotely involved in the BDO that can answer those questions and if they did the answers speak for themselves. PDC had the names of darts players trending throughout the UK during their games in the matchplay, the BDO struggle to get 100 likes on anything they post.

The absolutely massive thing is Winmau walking away. They could lean on them a lot for business help and for money, the fact they don't have that now means they need to find someone that can deal with that side of the game fast, like within the next month fast, because if they dont televise the worlds its game over. The few people left interested in the BDO will completely lose interest if they think the worlds has ended.

Not televising it is bigger than moving from Lakeside. If its still at lakeside but streamed to nobody or on freesports then its going to be 10 times worse than if it was at say Preston but on a major TV channel

Ref your comment about how Lincs help players with the tour ...Loads have dropped out of it, look how many players from Lincs play in events here and abroad, discounting Turkey as most see that as a holiday. I know one player who stopped because of the contract and look how Sue Edwards has stopped touring ...perhaps it could be that Paula has found another pairs partner. The LDO has gone from strength to losing loads of members as well and who can remember the just giving page to bolster the women's WC cash lol...I bet that pleased the sponsors.

[Zapp Brannigan]

Still cannot believe the Jacklins are popular

The thing is Oche is that from anyone that has any dealings with them that I know they are very nice people to their friends, they look after people. You only have to look at what they offer anyone that plays for lincs, you can pretty much do the tour for free with them.

The problems come because they still settle their differences with slagging matches and they, and their friends, are not afraid to get into an argument and let it boil over. You just cant do that these days.

I still actually think as a leader of the delegates and a chairperson of that group of people Des would do a good job, as he has ideas, people will listen to him and I think that group of people needs someone who isnt afraid to start shouting and screaming at them when it needs be.

The problem is going to be the professional side of the BDO.

Can you imagine anyone going in with that attitude with a major sponsor or potential broadcaster? and not only that its not the 90s anymore. Companies want proposals completely costed, they want to know the benefit they are getting out of it and they want to know all about social interactions, people they can connect with online, even how many likes and shares you are getting on twitter (People may laugh at that but Man Utds last quarterly business call spent 20 minutes talking about how many people they reach on twitter now). There is nobody remotely involved in the BDO that can answer those questions and if they did the answers speak for themselves. PDC had the names of darts players trending throughout the UK during their games in the matchplay, the BDO struggle to get 100 likes on anything they post.

The absolutely massive thing is Winmau walking away. They could lean on them a lot for business help and for money, the fact they don't have that now means they need to find someone that can deal with that side of the game fast, like within the next month fast, because if they dont televise the worlds its game over. The few people left interested in the BDO will completely lose interest if they think the worlds has ended.

Not televising it is bigger than moving from Lakeside. If its still at lakeside but streamed to nobody or on freesports then its going to be 10 times worse than if it was at say Preston but on a major TV channel

Ref your comment about how Lincs help players with the tour ...Loads have dropped out of it, look how many players from Lincs play in events here and abroad, discounting Turkey as most see that as a holiday. I know one player who stopped because of the contract and look how Sue Edwards has stopped touring ...perhaps it could be that Paula has found another pairs partner. The LDO has gone from strength to losing loads of members as well and who can remember the just giving page to bolster the women's WC cash lol...I bet that pleased the sponsors.

tbh I dont actually know how much of that is players just not wanting to do the BDO tour anymore.

I know Mark Wilson dropped out because he got a tour card, which is what hes been working towards for years (and I know he ended up falling out with Des as well).

It goes back to the argument of how many people are actually doing the full tour any more.

[Double Flops]

Yep I know Mark well, every now and then Lincs lose a player with petty fallouts that lead into bigger arguements ..one player was not picked for Lincs , he was 5th in the rankings, because of who his friends was lol...when he was told he wasn't being picked again, he wasn't happy and ended up with a ban. Grudges again being held by Lincs.

[daveboygreen]

Yep I know Mark well, every now and then Lincs lose a player with petty fallouts that lead into bigger arguements ..one player was not picked for Lincs , he was 5th in the rankings, because of who his friends was lol...when he was told he wasn't being picked again, he wasn't happy and ended up with a ban. Grudges again being held by Lincs.

To be fair you get a lot of this in other counties, Old pals act and fall outs etc, Just have to look a few years ago at Andy Brown, Was top of the superleague averages by a mile and Oxfordshire wouldn't even put him in the B, Heard of a lot of other instances with players being placed well enough to be selected but have been overlooked or not selected because of petty arguments or old 20 average loyal county arse kissing pal of the powers that be selected instead.

[Double Flops]

Yep I know Mark well, every now and then Lincs lose a player with petty fallouts that lead into bigger arguements ..one player was not picked for Lincs , he was 5th in the rankings, because of who his friends was lol...when he was told he wasn't being picked again, he wasn't happy and ended up with a ban. Grudges again being held by Lincs.

To be fair you get a lot of this in other counties, Old pals act and fall outs etc, Just have to look a few years ago at Andy Brown, Was top of the superleague averages by a mile and Oxfordshire wouldn't even put him in the B, Heard of a lot of other instances with players being placed well enough to be selected but have been overlooked or not selected because of petty arguments or old 20 average loyal county arse kissing pal of the powers that be selected instead.

Well Lincs super league numbers have more than halved in the last 6 yrs ...down to only 32 women and over 100 men have left ..it's a big fall.

[Dorsetdarter]

to be fair Ginge, i previously quoted a costing i worked out for a weekend event...which was around £40K.
Something with Lakeside you all seem to forget, with the broadcasting, is that they also have IMG looking after the production..effectively the host broadcaster...they bring in the technical team, OB company of their choice...and i would think that they are either covered directly from the broadcasters...or via what the BDO are paid for the broadcast..Frank is browsing perhaps he can enlighten us....
CAn easily work out a rough cost though...just for crew (as that's what I am for a living, so can take a guess at the going rates (i obs know what mine is)..alot of roles will cost different...London rates are more expensive than getting crew from up north etc)
Vision Director @ £500 per day
Vision Mixer @ £350 per day
Camera Racks Engineer/System engineer...probably 2 for the size of system. £350 each per day
Cameraman @ £300 per day x 9 i would guess. (1 jib, 2 reverse shots, 2 Board shots on 86x Lenses, 2 Radio Cameras, 2 PTC camera ops (interviews etc)
Jib operator £500 per day
Sound Mixer @ £300 per day
Sound #2 £300 per day
Camera assistants ?
Runners?
Stage Management
Producer/Exec Producer
Commentary team
Editors
Assistants (broadcasters usually have plenty of clipboard holders)
Uplinks to Broadcaster?
Cost of Truck and Camera KIt/Jib and long Box lenses.
per diems x
Accomodation
Transport and Crew Travel
So you can see how the final bill racks up before it even goes Live, and why a Large broadcaster being on board, with a decent production company, is so important to the event being a broadcast success.
Now what we don't know, is have channel 4 gone? is it dead in the water, or are either sportotal (you wouldn't think so) or IMG (previous production) still trying to make something happen...are BT sport still on board for 50%??

hope I haven't bored you too much with it....Sure is going to be an interesting few months...I wish the BDO every success.

[The Jolly Man]

But Sporttotal are taking the BDO to court.

[Skewball]

Chris Mason - World champs will be at Lakeside this year, however the total prize money will not be met by Potter, there wont be any mainstream broadcaster, and there wont be a sponsor who will pick up the tab for a mainstream broadcaster.

According to BDOF Potter has said he wont cover the prize fund if its not televised on a major station. If thats the case the BDO have to cover it as it was part of the contracts they got people to sign last year.

Well its nice to be right occasionally, hey Paddy (and Ginge), any luck ?

? I think you will still be wrong, should still be at Lakey.......

That's not what I said as you well know.

Yes it was....beep beep

Nope. The exact opposite actually. I have said it will be at Lakeside and I even think it will on a TV. Obviously the debate was a little too intelligent for you to grasp what was actually being debated

[Ginge]

to be fair Ginge, i previously quoted a costing i worked out for a weekend event...which was around £40K.
Something with Lakeside you all seem to forget, with the broadcasting, is that they also have IMG looking after the production..effectively the host broadcaster...they bring in the technical team, OB company of their choice...and i would think that they are either covered directly from the broadcasters...or via what the BDO are paid for the broadcast..Frank is browsing perhaps he can enlighten us....
CAn easily work out a rough cost though...just for crew (as that's what I am for a living, so can take a guess at the going rates (i obs know what mine is)..alot of roles will cost different...London rates are more expensive than getting crew from up north etc)
Vision Director @ £500 per day
Vision Mixer @ £350 per day
Camera Racks Engineer/System engineer...probably 2 for the size of system. £350 each per day
Cameraman @ £300 per day x 9 i would guess. (1 jib, 2 reverse shots, 2 Board shots on 86x Lenses, 2 Radio Cameras, 2 PTC camera ops (interviews etc)
Jib operator £500 per day
Sound Mixer @ £300 per day
Sound #2 £300 per day
Camera assistants ?
Runners?
Stage Management
Producer/Exec Producer
Commentary team
Editors
Assistants (broadcasters usually have plenty of clipboard holders)
Uplinks to Broadcaster?
Cost of Truck and Camera KIt/Jib and long Box lenses.
per diems x
Accomodation
Transport and Crew Travel
So you can see how the final bill racks up before it even goes Live, and why a Large broadcaster being on board, with a decent production company, is so important to the event being a broadcast success.
Now what we don't know, is have channel 4 gone? is it dead in the water, or are either sportotal (you wouldn't think so) or IMG (previous production) still trying to make something happen...are BT sport still on board for 50%??

hope I haven't bored you too much with it....Sure is going to be an interesting few months...I wish the BDO every success.

No chance in this world or the next that a budget TV channel is going to cover half of that.

If Channel 4 has gone (still remain to be convinced on that) then unless BT pick up the daytime half of the event I can't see who else would given the above amounts.
Cameramen alone costing over £24k!

[ChrisW]

Cameramen alone costing over £24k!

How do you work that out?