PDC Premier League 2019

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Zeyes
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Zeyes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 pm

Well, here's a potential reason: Do any players not named Brendan Dolan actually like the Grand Prix tournament format all that much? I don't really recall its praises being sung by the only people who matter for "prestige" determinations.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:44 pm

Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 pm
Well, here's a potential reason: Do any players not named Brendan Dolan actually like the Grand Prix tournament format all that much? I don't really recall its praises being sung by the only people who matter for "prestige" determinations.
The Grand Prix has a meritocratic qualification system and is a ranking event neither of which the PL has.

The Grand Prix also has a longer history than the PL. in fact it’s third only behind the worlds and Matchplay in terms of active TV majors.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Zeyes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Zeyes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:54 pm

To summarize:

The Grand Prix location is nothing special (unlike the Matchplay), the audience is not exactly known for creating a great atmosphere (unlike the Matchplay), the tournament format doesn't appear to be all that well-liked by the players (unlike the...World Cup!) - yeah, how could people possibly get the idea that the tournament doesn't have any particular cachet beyond the fact that it exists and a sizable bunch of prize money is to be won at it? Kind of like...the Premier League. Except that players have actually made a point of saying that winning the Premier League is a goal of theirs.

The Grand Prix is normal darts with extra randomness added to it for entertainment purposes. That's it. It's not some kind of must-win grueling test of darting prowess that separates the men from the boys.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Skewball » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:55 pm

phil davies wrote:
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 pm
Well, here's a potential reason: Do any players not named Brendan Dolan actually like the Grand Prix tournament format all that much? I don't really recall its praises being sung by the only people who matter for "prestige" determinations.
The Grand Prix has a meritocratic qualification system and is a ranking event neither of which the PL has.

The Grand Prix also has a longer history than the PL. in fact it’s third only behind the worlds and Matchplay in terms of active TV majors.
Your going round in circles.

The PL is easily the third biggest darts tournament, which ever way you measure it.
Sky, pdc, players, sponsors, bookies, 3k fans every week all agree.

But hey, you think the Grand Prix is bigger just because its a ranking event, so be it.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Zeyes » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm

Skewball wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:55 pm
But hey, you think the Grand Prix is bigger just because its a ranking event, so be it.
Heads would explode if the PDC ever decided to make the Grand Prix non-ranking because it doesn't fit in with the 501 SIDO nature of the rest of the ranking tournament calendar.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm

Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm
None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.
Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:01 pm

Skewball wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:55 pm
phil davies wrote:
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 pm
Well, here's a potential reason: Do any players not named Brendan Dolan actually like the Grand Prix tournament format all that much? I don't really recall its praises being sung by the only people who matter for "prestige" determinations.
The Grand Prix has a meritocratic qualification system and is a ranking event neither of which the PL has.

The Grand Prix also has a longer history than the PL. in fact it’s third only behind the worlds and Matchplay in terms of active TV majors.
Your going round in circles.

The PL is easily the third biggest darts tournament, which ever way you measure it.
Sky, pdc, players, sponsors, bookies, 3k fans every week all agree.

But hey, you think the Grand Prix is bigger just because its a ranking event, so be it.
Their are plenty of ways of measuring it which make it that it’s not one of which being it is not meritocratic and is not a ranking event and thus is a glorified exbo tour.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by ChrisW » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:36 pm

What a riveting argument.

Any odds available for Duzza's match yet?

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:14 pm

ChrisW wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:36 pm
What a riveting argument.

Any odds available for Duzza's match yet?
The bookies won’t price them up until the first weeks action is out of the way.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by thelad1985 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:33 pm

glenn will beat gurney no problem - gurney is a lakeside failure who sky signed up of the market and turned into a premier league star - glenn is 3x world champion - the best player this decade if you ask me - top 3 this century with wolf and taylor -

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Mensur Suljovic Fan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:17 am

phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:34 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:28 pm
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:19 pm
How exactly the PL is a non ranking event and essentially a big long exhibition tour many many players would prefer to win an actual ranking event as it would offer them greater benefits going forward in their career.
Your entire argument against the PL's status is that players only want to win it because of £££, not because it has prestige on its own (where apparently you're the sole arbiter of how that prestige is measured). So when somebody says that the Grand Prix isn't all it's cracked up to be, your refutation is...that the Grand Prix will be more relevant to players who are in urgent need of £££ not just for their next sportscar, but also for their ranking? Oookay. That doesn't seem very prestige-affirming if the best you can say in favour of the tournament is that it's all about the paycheck there, too, just for a different reason. But I guess it makes sense in your mind, somehow.
Nobody has offered any reason as to why the PL is a more prestigious major than the line of Grand Slam or the Grand Prix.

I would be intrested to hear why anyone thinks it is more prestigious but as yet nobody has offerd why.

I can only assume they buy the Sky hype around it or think that the Prize money is the be all and end all of dart tournaments rankings. Which this year more than any other has shown to be bollocks as I’m yet to hear anyone claim is a bigger event than the Matchplay which offer less money to the winner.
You can fluke your way to a run in a knockout tournament, but you sure as hell can't do that in the Premier League. fek, they could have replaced Anderson with Eddie Dootson and it would still be 8 of the best 10 players playing on a regular basis, whoever gets to the semis/final would still richly deserve it

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Mensur Suljovic Fan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:24 am

phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:44 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:37 pm
Well, here's a potential reason: Do any players not named Brendan Dolan actually like the Grand Prix tournament format all that much? I don't really recall its praises being sung by the only people who matter for "prestige" determinations.
The Grand Prix has a meritocratic qualification system and is a ranking event neither of which the PL has.

The Grand Prix also has a longer history than the PL. in fact it’s third only behind the worlds and Matchplay in terms of active TV majors.
To be fair, the Grand Prix used to have two Irish qualifiers who rarely did much, at least Barney these days is still capable of moments of brilliance in flashes. The Worlds is also far from perfectly meritocratic, yet you don't seem to be moaning nearly as much about that than the Premier League. For me, the only real reason the Premier League isn't as prestigious as the big majors is the format, it's arguably one of the biggest challenges in the sport to get to finals day, but once you're there, it's only best of 19/21. As great an achievement it is to beat the best of the best over that format, it's even greater to beat them in Worlds/Matchplay/Grand Prix/Slam final

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Wubbalubbadubdub » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:30 am

The Premier league is only held in high esteem due to Players/Pdc making a shedload of cash on offer, which bolster the whole season and garner fans for said players involved.
If players only had the BDO choice of events then I think the Premier League for most players would be far from anything they require ,as gaining ranking pounds is far more of a pull to the 16-32 ranked players(barring Barney who always gets picked which also makes this season a slight farce)

If your getting your arse handed to you every week(which I will back barney in losing more than he wins) then these "fairweather" fans will dump their "alledged" player they follow.(As Price has proved in the last few comps).

The Premier league,as most people say, is a glorified exhibition. Until it's the Best 10 in the world over the last 12 months it's not really a Premier League.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Buzz Fledderjohn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am

phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm
None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.
Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:22 am

Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm
None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.
Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
This was basically my point that they only want to win it because of the money. If I came into the PDC as a sponsor and said I want to host an event where I will pay out £300k to the winner then suddenly all the players would really want to win that event it doesn’t mean it has prestige just a big prize fund.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Buzz Fledderjohn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:11 am

phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:22 am
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm
None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.
Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
This was basically my point that they only want to win it because of the money. If I came into the PDC as a sponsor and said I want to host an event where I will pay out £300k to the winner then suddenly all the players would really want to win that event it doesn’t mean it has prestige just a big prize fund.
But is it then the case that the large prize fund creates the prestige?
The players may very well be talking through their wallets when they talk about the PL being such a big deal, and one they really want to win, but the players taking it so seriously is what legitimises it as a competition.

Or looking at it from another perspective, how would it affect the World Championship if the prize fund was cut to the levels of a Player's Championship event? Try selling out Ally Pally and getting Sky to show it every day for the best part of a month in those circumstances.(I'm aware what a ludicrous notion this is and am just using it for illustrative purposes before anyone takes it literally)

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by phil davies » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:16 pm

Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:11 am
phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:22 am
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm
Zeyes wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm
None of which are at all relevant for how much prestige players attach to competing in it and winning it. You're really grasping at straws here.
Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
This was basically my point that they only want to win it because of the money. If I came into the PDC as a sponsor and said I want to host an event where I will pay out £300k to the winner then suddenly all the players would really want to win that event it doesn’t mean it has prestige just a big prize fund.
But is it then the case that the large prize fund creates the prestige?
The players may very well be talking through their wallets when they talk about the PL being such a big deal, and one they really want to win, but the players taking it so seriously is what legitimises it as a competition.

Or looking at it from another perspective, how would it affect the World Championship if the prize fund was cut to the levels of a Player's Championship event? Try selling out Ally Pally and getting Sky to show it every day for the best part of a month in those circumstances.(I'm aware what a ludicrous notion this is and am just using it for illustrative purposes before anyone takes it literally)
If it was meritocratic and had a large prize fund then fair enough but the PL isn’t that it is simply an exhibition tour that obviously the players want to win because of the money but other than them and sky(because it gets them a lot of viewers) hyping it. I don’t see how any fan can legitmety think that is a more prestigious event than a meritocratic ranked major. Particularly ones that have more history than the PL.

Don’t get me wrong it’s a magnificent event for the players and the PDC but for hardcore Darts fans they should surely be able to see it for what it is rather than buying into the hype of it being only below the Worlds and Matchplay for prestige.
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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Buzz Fledderjohn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:21 pm

phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:16 pm
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:11 am
phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:22 am
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm


Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
This was basically my point that they only want to win it because of the money. If I came into the PDC as a sponsor and said I want to host an event where I will pay out £300k to the winner then suddenly all the players would really want to win that event it doesn’t mean it has prestige just a big prize fund.
But is it then the case that the large prize fund creates the prestige?
The players may very well be talking through their wallets when they talk about the PL being such a big deal, and one they really want to win, but the players taking it so seriously is what legitimises it as a competition.

Or looking at it from another perspective, how would it affect the World Championship if the prize fund was cut to the levels of a Player's Championship event? Try selling out Ally Pally and getting Sky to show it every day for the best part of a month in those circumstances.(I'm aware what a ludicrous notion this is and am just using it for illustrative purposes before anyone takes it literally)
If it was meritocratic and had a large prize fund then fair enough but the PL isn’t that it is simply an exhibition tour that obviously the players want to win because of the money but other than them and sky(because it gets them a lot of viewers) hyping it. I don’t see how any fan can legitmety think that is a more prestigious event than a meritocratic ranked major. Particularly ones that have more history than the PL.

Don’t get me wrong it’s a magnificent event for the players and the PDC but for hardcore Darts fans they should surely be able to see it for what it is rather than buying into the hype of it being only below the Worlds and Matchplay for prestige.
I still think if the consensus amongst the players is that it's a prestigious title to have on their CV (even if only because of the money involved) then that is enough for it to be seen as a prestigious event in the greater scheme of things.
Otherwise I agree with all you've said, and like previous years I'll only be watching on a Thursday if I genuinely can't find anything better to do.

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Re: PDC Premier League 2019

Post by Mensur Suljovic Fan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:28 pm

phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:16 pm
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:11 am
phil davies wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:22 am
Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:56 am
phil davies wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:59 pm


Um yes they do. Your talking nonsense without actually coming up with any reasonable arguement. Also how is the prestige of a tournement decided by those competing in it surely it decided more so by the fans.
Surely the prestige of the event is in the eye of the beholder, either player or fan?

For what it's worth Phil, I agree with you in that it is an exhibition tour devoid of any real merit due to the way the field is selected. It's why I rarely bother watching it. The PDC and Sky Sports marketing machines can tell me till they're blue in the face how important and prestigious a competition it is, I'm not listening.

But where it moves away from being an exhibition, and starts to gain legitimacy, is that the players clearly take it very seriously and want to win it. Their reasons for feeling this way are irrelevant. If any player says it's up there with the World Championship as the one they want to win, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
This was basically my point that they only want to win it because of the money. If I came into the PDC as a sponsor and said I want to host an event where I will pay out £300k to the winner then suddenly all the players would really want to win that event it doesn’t mean it has prestige just a big prize fund.
But is it then the case that the large prize fund creates the prestige?
The players may very well be talking through their wallets when they talk about the PL being such a big deal, and one they really want to win, but the players taking it so seriously is what legitimises it as a competition.

Or looking at it from another perspective, how would it affect the World Championship if the prize fund was cut to the levels of a Player's Championship event? Try selling out Ally Pally and getting Sky to show it every day for the best part of a month in those circumstances.(I'm aware what a ludicrous notion this is and am just using it for illustrative purposes before anyone takes it literally)
If it was meritocratic and had a large prize fund then fair enough but the PL isn’t that it is simply an exhibition tour that obviously the players want to win because of the money but other than them and sky(because it gets them a lot of viewers) hyping it. I don’t see how any fan can legitmety think that is a more prestigious event than a meritocratic ranked major. Particularly ones that have more history than the PL.

Don’t get me wrong it’s a magnificent event for the players and the PDC but for hardcore Darts fans they should surely be able to see it for what it is rather than buying into the hype of it being only below the Worlds and Matchplay for prestige.
But that's the thing, there's only 4 current TV events that have been going on longer than the Premier League. Plenty of other events have had (and indeed still have) unmeritocratic aspects, but still, on the whole, every tournament is pretty meritocratic (8 out of 9 ain't bad you have to admit!). Hypothetically speaking, if I'm a player, I'd place the Premier League (where the weakest player is Barney who is still capable in patches) above, say, the Players where you could get very easily get a lucky run and face few stiff challenges

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