Harms criticizes media at Grand Slam

[ChrisW]

Seriously folks, it's a generalisation. Pdc are the professional side of darts whilst the bdo is seen as the amateur.

Folks are a bit touchy in bdo circles it seems.

is the bdo now full of 'snowflakes'?

But the PDC has countless players who are making a loss. what do we call these. Potential professionals?

[craigmc]

Quite but people have used the term amateur as stern of ridicule for years

Some have. But to be fair, at times, folks on 'the bdo side' of darts have played the superiority card.

Proper darts. Proper fans. The original and the best. Bdo have produced all the players.

Yes everyone knows that....what's the point of your post?

I don't know. I have been on the McEwans export. It's something to do with something. I think.

go bdo. Gonna grow I am told.

McEwans export is a formidable drink. Great at the time but serious headache tomorrow

[ssjsa]

Quite but people have used the term amateur as stern of ridicule for years

Some have. But to be fair, at times, folks on 'the bdo side' of darts have played the superiority card.

Proper darts. Proper fans. The original and the best. Bdo have produced all the players.

Yes everyone knows that....what's the point of your post?

I don't know. I have been on the McEwans export. It's something to do with something. I think.

go bdo. Gonna grow I am told.

McEwans export is a formidable drink. Great at the time but serious headache tomorrow

[BOOM]

Bit of a nothing article if you ask me.
He was obviously buzzing after that 5-4 win from looking like he would go out.
Just a bit of 'don't write us/me off' statement.
I Ilistened to the interview with Arjan just now and he is not really angry or making a big deal about it.
Just said we enjoy the game and some media seem to write us off. So don't under estimate what we can do.

Anyway he will be gone after Thursday. No chance against Gando in the long format.

He doesn't look like he's enjoying it very often

[craigmc]

Don't see Harms problem with the terminology? PDC made it easier than ever for the amateurs to progress by having likes of Gilding Hine Webster Murnan in there and going out in group stages of this still gives majority of them their best payday of the year plus the tv exposure lacking in the amateur side. Think Harms should be thanking the media not bitching about making some real money as an invited guest

[devosteve]

Seriously folks, it's a generalisation. Pdc are the professional side of darts whilst the bdo is seen as the amateur.

Folks are a bit touchy in bdo circles it seems.

is the bdo now full of 'snowflakes'?

But the PDC has countless players who are making a loss. what do we call these. Potential professionals?

Not talking about the players Chris. I am talking about the organisations. The professionalism (or lack of) kind of reflects onto the players. Like I said a generalisation.

But generation snowflake don't like it. "We are all winners" they cry. "Please don't say anything that offends me" is their mantra. The more i think of it this applies to many players and fans in the bdo.

[devosteve]

Quite but people have used the term amateur as stern of ridicule for years

Some have. But to be fair, at times, folks on 'the bdo side' of darts have played the superiority card.

Proper darts. Proper fans. The original and the best. Bdo have produced all the players.

Yes everyone knows that....what's the point of your post?

I don't know. I have been on the McEwans export. It's something to do with something. I think.

go bdo. Gonna grow I am told.

McEwans export is a formidable drink. Great at the time but serious headache tomorrow

thanks for the concern craigmc. But I have balanced it out by starting with a doom bar (amber ale).

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Don't see Harms problem with the terminology? PDC made it easier than ever for the amateurs to progress by having likes of Gilding Hine Webster Murnan in there and going out in group stages of this still gives majority of them their best payday of the year plus the tv exposure lacking in the amateur side. Think Harms should be thanking the media not bitching about making some real money as an invited guest

Amateurs

[1205]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

Those definitions are fair enough, but the trouble with darts (and other sports) is that earnings and income are largely non-guaranteed.

When I play for my league team, I do so for fun, so on a Tuesday night I'm an amateur.
But if I enter an open / knockout at the weekend, do I suddenly become semi-professional?
Or do I only achieve that status if I make the money? Or what if I make a bit of money but over the course of the day spend more than I win on food and drink, and go home with less that I left the house with: amateur or semi-professional? Is my status affected if they pay me in holiday camp vouchers rather than cash?

Even applying the OED definitions in this case raises more questions than it answers, which is why I went for the professional / amateur definitions I did earlier, which if nothing else are pretty black and white.

When somebody spends a lot of time practising, has an equipment sponsorship, travels to a bunch of competitions, in multiple countries, and earns a substantial amount of money in them, then I think that semi-professional is a much better description.

Drawing an exact line is tough, but generally, once the money becomes a significant factor in when and where you play , you're going from amateur to semi-professional.

[craigmc]

Don't see Harms problem with the terminology? PDC made it easier than ever for the amateurs to progress by having likes of Gilding Hine Webster Murnan in there and going out in group stages of this still gives majority of them their best payday of the year plus the tv exposure lacking in the amateur side. Think Harms should be thanking the media not bitching about making some real money as an invited guest

Amateurs

Point being? I agree with dgb in that they earnt the right to be there but that must be the weakest line up of PDC reps ever in Grand slam? The fact only a couple of Euro joggers progressed has got the BDO apologists panties in a twist again.

[craigmc]

Some have. But to be fair, at times, folks on 'the bdo side' of darts have played the superiority card.

Proper darts. Proper fans. The original and the best. Bdo have produced all the players.

Yes everyone knows that....what's the point of your post?

I don't know. I have been on the McEwans export. It's something to do with something. I think.

go bdo. Gonna grow I am told.

McEwans export is a formidable drink. Great at the time but serious headache tomorrow

thanks for the concern craigmc. But I have balanced it out by starting with a doom bar (amber ale).

Another fine beverage. Enjoy Devo. Guinness then few Gin for me and watch the arrows

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

Those definitions are fair enough, but the trouble with darts (and other sports) is that earnings and income are largely non-guaranteed.

When I play for my league team, I do so for fun, so on a Tuesday night I'm an amateur.
But if I enter an open / knockout at the weekend, do I suddenly become semi-professional?
Or do I only achieve that status if I make the money? Or what if I make a bit of money but over the course of the day spend more than I win on food and drink, and go home with less that I left the house with: amateur or semi-professional? Is my status affected if they pay me in holiday camp vouchers rather than cash?

Even applying the OED definitions in this case raises more questions than it answers, which is why I went for the professional / amateur definitions I did earlier, which if nothing else are pretty black and white.

When somebody spends a lot of time practising, has an equipment sponsorship, travels to a bunch of competitions, in multiple countries, and earns a substantial amount of money in them, then I think that semi-professional is a much better description.

Drawing an exact line is tough, but generally, once the money becomes a significant factor in when and where you play , you're going from amateur to semi-professional.

I'm not criticising your logic, but I'd certainly put a lot more importance on money earned over distance travelled and hours spent practising.
My problem is the term "semi-professional" is so open to interpretation that virtually anyone can claim they are semi-professional at something (see my comment about my 30 quid a game rugby playing mate earlier). As such I just find it easier to split players into professional and amateur and be done with it.

[DavidB]

This is from someone who loves Gerwyn Price

Don’t love him simply have met him several times unlike most people on this forum. He is a genuine down to earth bloke. Maybe Harms is a nice guy to I dont know as I’ve never met him in person but IMO he comes across as a bit of a knob.

Very contradictory post, there

It really isn’t you just haven’t read it/understood it properly. Also comes down to personal opinion I like players who show emotion on stage like Price it’s much preferable to watching a bunch of robots. Hence some of my favorite players down the years also were animated on stage such as Hankey, Part, Nicholson, Suljovic etc.

I think Harms comes across as bit of a knob from watching him down the years. Funnily enough given his interview after the game Wade also seemed to hint at that.

Ah ok then...

[craigmc]

The laughing men

[Martin Legandowski]

The laughing men

Dzien dobry Craig

Have been drinking the Zubrowka with my very good friend who you all on this email are knowing as Garry. We are being playing darts but we are not knowing where our Dartboard is coming from

We are getting ready to play the two persons game in the darts between here and the forum which banned Garry. As long as it is being in Cork.

And the laughing men are good.

Edited by Admin.

[malcy93]

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

Those definitions are fair enough, but the trouble with darts (and other sports) is that earnings and income are largely non-guaranteed.

When I play for my league team, I do so for fun, so on a Tuesday night I'm an amateur.
But if I enter an open / knockout at the weekend, do I suddenly become semi-professional?
Or do I only achieve that status if I make the money? Or what if I make a bit of money but over the course of the day spend more than I win on food and drink, and go home with less that I left the house with: amateur or semi-professional? Is my status affected if they pay me in holiday camp vouchers rather than cash?

Even applying the OED definitions in this case raises more questions than it answers, which is why I went for the professional / amateur definitions I did earlier, which if nothing else are pretty black and white.

When somebody spends a lot of time practising, has an equipment sponsorship, travels to a bunch of competitions, in multiple countries, and earns a substantial amount of money in them, then I think that semi-professional is a much better description.

Drawing an exact line is tough, but generally, once the money becomes a significant factor in when and where you play , you're going from amateur to semi-professional.

I'm not criticising your logic, but I'd certainly put a lot more importance on money earned over distance travelled and hours spent practising.
My problem is the term "semi-professional" is so open to interpretation that virtually anyone can claim they are semi-professional at something (see my comment about my 30 quid a game rugby playing mate earlier). As such I just find it easier to split players into professional and amateur and be done with it.

Sounds like the son of a friend. He plays for a club in 5th tier of non league football so 9th in total.

He is one of 3 in the team on top money of £100 appearance fee per game whether starting or as a sub. Then gets a 2nd £100 if they have mid week game or training.

Now in football that is classified as semi-Professional even though he needs a real job as well to pay the bills as £200 per week doesn’t get you far. However I believe getting any money in football no longer makes you an amateur as it’s being paid for playing so if injured no money.

I do though think Darts is different as there’s no wage as such so you have to win a less a few games in each comp you enter to get paid and in the BDO with lower prize money as noted earlier you need deep runs in the comps to cover your expenses of a weekend, whereas on Pro Tour one win especially with free entry and you should cover your costs.

However it’s all language as I see amateur or semi-Professional as the same. You can support yourself from darts so need a job as well. So you aren’t a professional as the top of the PDC are and I presume Durrant is, as he tops up his money from exbos.

Apart from Durrant are there any in BDO who are fully professional so could support themselves from what they earn in darts ?

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

Durrant still has a day job (housing manager or something), although these days he clearly earns more from darts every year, so is pretty much a unique case. One would imagine if he quit his job he could more than compensate through extra exbo work without having to worry about moving over to the PDC, so could easily be a genuine BDO professional.
As it is, he obviously loves his job and doesn't want to pack it in. As someone a lot wiser than me once said, if you love your job you never work a day in your life, so good luck to him.

I could be wrong (and someone will certainly tell me if I am) but I'm fairly sure Wolfie is fully professional and makes enough from his exbo work to get by. No idea about the rest.

[Mgt]

Durrant still has a day job (housing manager or something), although these days he clearly earns more from darts every year, so is pretty much a unique case. One would imagine if he quit his job he could more than compensate through extra exbo work without having to worry about moving over to the PDC, so could easily be a genuine BDO professional.
As it is, he obviously loves his job and doesn't want to pack it in. As someone a lot wiser than me once said, if you love your job you never work a day in your life, so good luck to him.

I could be wrong (and someone will certainly tell me if I am) but I'm fairly sure Wolfie is fully professional and makes enough from his exbo work to get by. No idea about the rest.

Maybe O'Shea and Fitton are still popular enough to get by on exbo's?

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

Durrant still has a day job (housing manager or something), although these days he clearly earns more from darts every year, so is pretty much a unique case. One would imagine if he quit his job he could more than compensate through extra exbo work without having to worry about moving over to the PDC, so could easily be a genuine BDO professional.
As it is, he obviously loves his job and doesn't want to pack it in. As someone a lot wiser than me once said, if you love your job you never work a day in your life, so good luck to him.

I could be wrong (and someone will certainly tell me if I am) but I'm fairly sure Wolfie is fully professional and makes enough from his exbo work to get by. No idea about the rest.

Maybe O'Shea and Fitton are still popular enough to get by on exbo's?

I did think about them as other possibles, but as I don't know, decided not to bother mentioning them.

[Zapp Brannigan]

Durrant still has a day job (housing manager or something), although these days he clearly earns more from darts every year, so is pretty much a unique case. One would imagine if he quit his job he could more than compensate through extra exbo work without having to worry about moving over to the PDC, so could easily be a genuine BDO professional.
As it is, he obviously loves his job and doesn't want to pack it in. As someone a lot wiser than me once said, if you love your job you never work a day in your life, so good luck to him.

I could be wrong (and someone will certainly tell me if I am) but I'm fairly sure Wolfie is fully professional and makes enough from his exbo work to get by. No idea about the rest.

Hasnt Duzza openly said he doesnt want to quit his job.