Barry Hearn on the BDO and women's darts

[Pompey Col]

Why waste his time talking about rubbish like BDO and Womens Darts?
Viewers want to see quality and glamour,unless you are Oche.

It's glitz not,quality.

Would be if it was 1 example. But since I mentioned 2 x examples(BDO and Womens Darts),the quality in the BDO is non existant.

Edited by Admin.

[oche balboa]

Why waste his time talking about rubbish like BDO and Womens Darts?
Viewers want to see quality and glamour,unless you are Oche.

It's glitz not,quality.

Would be if it was 1 example. But since I mentioned 2 x examples(BDO and Womens Darts),the quality in the BDO is non existant.

Clockkkkk

[Pompey Col]

Why waste his time talking about rubbish like BDO and Womens Darts?
Viewers want to see quality and glamour,unless you are Oche.

It's glitz not,quality.

Would be if it was 1 example. But since I mentioned 2 x examples(BDO and Womens Darts),the quality in the BDO is non existant.

Clockkkkk

Knew mentioned BDO Mens and Womens would get you aroused Oche.I dont watch either as its hard to tell the difference scoring wise,among other things!

[BlueSpark]

So as far as I can see, some players were fed up with their darts falling out of the board. So they now use points to try and combat this, which shred the boards to fek after about 20 minutes.

[Wubbalubbadubdub]

Ed can use all the stats he likes but it is clear the boards are not up to scratch. And, as he acknowledges in all fairness, some players suffer more than others. Gary Anderson's three darts falling out in the middle of a world championship final was simply embarrassing.

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

I've been saying for ages that all the sisal should be dyed black, before the board is put together, then just do the white bits with the screen print (and the trebles and doubles etc.)
It would then show up better on HD tv or would it?
Is this possible Ed?

[Murphio]

Ed can use all the stats he likes but it is clear the boards are not up to scratch. And, as he acknowledges in all fairness, some players suffer more than others. Gary Anderson's three darts falling out in the middle of a world championship final was simply embarrassing.

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong? And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied. I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

[ssjsa]

Ed can use all the stats he likes but it is clear the boards are not up to scratch. And, as he acknowledges in all fairness, some players suffer more than others. Gary Anderson's three darts falling out in the middle of a world championship final was simply embarrassing.

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong? And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied. I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

Firstly, I am not saying for a second that the Unicorn boards are consistently to the highest standard, but for me, the stats published show that the issue is not as great as the detractors would have you believe.

The data shows that the rejections on the first dart are massively lower than on both the 2nd and 3rd, and this would suggest that factors other than the board, are the primary ones in the overall rejection numbers.

That being said the Anderson 3 darts which fell out of the board in the WC Final did more to damage the reputation of Unicorn than any of the other rejections, and whilst I am on the subject that bull rejection which cost Ando the match against Hogan at the UK Open still sticks in my craw.

[Murphio]

Ed can use all the stats he likes but it is clear the boards are not up to scratch. And, as he acknowledges in all fairness, some players suffer more than others. Gary Anderson's three darts falling out in the middle of a world championship final was simply embarrassing.

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong? And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied. I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

Firstly, I am not saying for a second that the Unicorn boards are consistently to the highest standard, but for me, the stats published show that the issue is not as great as the detractors would have you believe.

The data shows that the rejections on the first dart are massively lower than on both the 2nd and 3rd, and this would suggest that factors other than the board, are the primary ones in the overall rejection numbers.

That being said the Anderson 3 darts which fell out of the board in the WC Final did more to damage the reputation of Unicorn than any of the other rejections, and whilst I am on the subject that bull rejection which cost Ando the match against Hogan at the UK Open still sticks in my craw.

If I get a bad meal in a restaurant and complain to the manager I wouldn't expect him to produce stats to say how good my meal was. Players are not happy with the Unicorn boards. I have seen quite a few complaining about them on Twitter - including players who earn a living from the same company. So Unicorn can continue firing stats out to combat the claims and blaming guys like Whitlock for adjusting their equipment. Or it can actually start engaging properly with the players and doing something to rectify the situation. Most players seem to agree that Unicorn boards are of a lower quality than the Winmau. The company surely needs to do something about that given it is the exclusive supplier for the pro end of the game.

[Pompey Col]

Come back Nodor,all is forgiven!

[ssjsa]

Ed can use all the stats he likes but it is clear the boards are not up to scratch. And, as he acknowledges in all fairness, some players suffer more than others. Gary Anderson's three darts falling out in the middle of a world championship final was simply embarrassing.

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong? And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied. I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

Firstly, I am not saying for a second that the Unicorn boards are consistently to the highest standard, but for me, the stats published show that the issue is not as great as the detractors would have you believe.

The data shows that the rejections on the first dart are massively lower than on both the 2nd and 3rd, and this would suggest that factors other than the board, are the primary ones in the overall rejection numbers.

That being said the Anderson 3 darts which fell out of the board in the WC Final did more to damage the reputation of Unicorn than any of the other rejections, and whilst I am on the subject that bull rejection which cost Ando the match against Hogan at the UK Open still sticks in my craw.

If I get a bad meal in a restaurant and complain to the manager I wouldn't expect him to produce stats to say how good my meal was. Players are not happy with the Unicorn boards. I have seen quite a few complaining about them on Twitter - including players who earn a living from the same company. So Unicorn can continue firing stats out to combat the claims and blaming guys like Whitlock for adjusting their equipment. Or it can actually start engaging properly with the players and doing something to rectify the situation. Most players seem to agree that Unicorn boards are of a lower quality than the Winmau. The company surely needs to do something about that given it is the exclusive supplier for the pro end of the game.

A very articulate and succinct post, and one which I am not saying holds no validity.

There have been issues with the Unicorn boards, and there have been instances of players complaining, which they are completely entitled to do, given it impacts on their livelihood.

My point is that although there have been some high profile instances, the data evidences that the issue is not as severe as some would have us believe.

Whether Winmau have better boards than Unicorn is a different debate, and one which we all have our opinion on.

[ILAD]

Spot on Murph, let's not waste time on the facts

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong? And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied. I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

Firstly, I am not saying for a second that the Unicorn boards are consistently to the highest standard, but for me, the stats published show that the issue is not as great as the detractors would have you believe.

The data shows that the rejections on the first dart are massively lower than on both the 2nd and 3rd, and this would suggest that factors other than the board, are the primary ones in the overall rejection numbers.

That being said the Anderson 3 darts which fell out of the board in the WC Final did more to damage the reputation of Unicorn than any of the other rejections, and whilst I am on the subject that bull rejection which cost Ando the match against Hogan at the UK Open still sticks in my craw.

If I get a bad meal in a restaurant and complain to the manager I wouldn't expect him to produce stats to say how good my meal was. Players are not happy with the Unicorn boards. I have seen quite a few complaining about them on Twitter - including players who earn a living from the same company. So Unicorn can continue firing stats out to combat the claims and blaming guys like Whitlock for adjusting their equipment. Or it can actually start engaging properly with the players and doing something to rectify the situation. Most players seem to agree that Unicorn boards are of a lower quality than the Winmau. The company surely needs to do something about that given it is the exclusive supplier for the pro end of the game.

A very articulate and succinct post, and one which I am not saying holds no validity.

There have been issues with the Unicorn boards, and there have been instances of players complaining, which they are completely entitled to do, given it impacts on their livelihood.

My point is that although there have been some high profile instances, the data evidences that the issue is not as severe as some would have us believe.

Whether Winmau have better boards than Unicorn is a different debate, and one which we all have our opinion on.

So as I pointed out yesterday, Whitlock’s points are smooth, the same as countless other players yet why do they wreck the board?

[Edward Lowy]

So you are telling me then Ed that all the players who have complained - including Michael Smith who you sponsor - have it wrong?

Absolutely not - what gave you that idea? We listen a lot.

And I am not talking about ignoring the stats - I am saying that posting stats to support your products' durability is ultimately meaningless if the people who are using them aren't satisfied.

The stats do not talk about durability at all. They set out the facts about Rejected Darts - do you disagree with the data?

I'm guessing the complaints would be a lot more frequent were it not for the threat of DRA punishment for speaking out. To me it is obvious, stats aside, that certain set-ups suffer more than others on your boards (as you acknowledge) so it is up to you to ensure your equipment is the same for everyone as much as possible.

The board is the same for both players. It is a level playing field unless one players equipment causes damage to the board to the detriment of the other player.

[Edward Lowy]

For folks who have not see what we have put out on Twitter etc, here is the data on Rejected Darts as compiled by Chris Kempf aka Ochepedia, to whom we are most grateful for his assistance.

http://www.unicornsmartboard.com/media/ ... ly2019.pdf

The data is analysed by Player, Tournament and Year. The benchmark that the figures reveal is that for 2018 and 2019 to date, the Reject Rate, for any reason, is running at 0.35% or 3.5 darts rejected for every 1,000 darts thrown.

The Reject rate is lowest for the 1st dart thrown (0.017%) and naturally increases for the 2nd (0.115%) and 3rd darts (0.213%) as the darts in the board become obstacles for the subsequent incoming dart.

From the data, of 602,897 darts analysed by Chris, 100 were rejected as 1st darts thrown, in other words a 1st dart is rejected for every 6,000 thrown.

We have also published a couple of Blogs around this area which you may find to be of interest.
http://www.unicornsmartboard.com/media/ ... 0119v4.pdf
http://www.unicornsmartboard.com/media/ ... 0120v4.pdf

Kind regards

Edward

[Wubbalubbadubdub]

So what was the conclusion of Euro Tour 9's boards? (28th June 2019)

[trotter01]

Asong as they don't focus on the World Series events at the expense of proper ranking events.. To me the World Series events hold little interest.. Hand picked players to play some holiday darts for no ranking points does not hold my interest... I get their point but I don't really want to see any more..

As for the boards.. Unicorn boards do seem very poor at present.. Whitlock used to have problems with his darts dropping out and his new points are savage on the board but surely the board should be able to cope for more than a couple of legs

I think it's crazy that the PDC provide such a professional environment yet use sub standard boards

[Edward Lowy]

So what was the conclusion of Euro Tour 9's boards? (28th June 2019)

Conclusion = unusual! Reject Rate 0.84% way above benchmark 0.35%. Some interesting games : Kevin Garcia had 11 Rejects in his first round match against Jermaine Wattimena - who had Zero. How to explain that?

[Wubbalubbadubdub]

So what was the conclusion of Euro Tour 9's boards? (28th June 2019)

Conclusion = unusual! Reject Rate 0.84% way above benchmark 0.35%. Some interesting games : Kevin Garcia had 11 Rejects in his first round match against Jermaine Wattimena - who had Zero. How to explain that?

Kev plays a few KO's round here and he does get a few bounce outs due to his throwing style, also there on Blade 5's.

Though if you could answer my other question, Is it possible to dye the sisal black and only screen print the white bits?
I'm positve it would look a lot better when it tears up slightly as the white threads would be nowhere and the black underneath the red wouldn't be as pronouced.

[Edward Lowy]

So what was the conclusion of Euro Tour 9's boards? (28th June 2019)

Conclusion = unusual! Reject Rate 0.84% way above benchmark 0.35%. Some interesting games : Kevin Garcia had 11 Rejects in his first round match against Jermaine Wattimena - who had Zero. How to explain that?

Kev plays a few KO's round here and he does get a few bounce outs due to his throwing style, also there on Blade 5's.

Though if you could answer my other question, Is it possible to dye the sisal black and only screen print the white bits?
I'm positve it would look a lot better when it tears up slightly as the white threads would be nowhere and the black underneath the red wouldn't be as pronouced.

Thanks, interesting re Kev, he has a very unusual set up.

Re screening - we have tried various permutations but have not been tempted to use in production.

[Wubbalubbadubdub]

So what was the conclusion of Euro Tour 9's boards? (28th June 2019)

Conclusion = unusual! Reject Rate 0.84% way above benchmark 0.35%. Some interesting games : Kevin Garcia had 11 Rejects in his first round match against Jermaine Wattimena - who had Zero. How to explain that?

Kev plays a few KO's round here and he does get a few bounce outs due to his throwing style, also there on Blade 5's.

Though if you could answer my other question, Is it possible to dye the sisal black and only screen print the white bits?
I'm positve it would look a lot better when it tears up slightly as the white threads would be nowhere and the black underneath the red wouldn't be as pronouced.

Thanks, interesting re Kev, he has a very unusual set up.

Re screening - we have tried various permutations but have not been tempted to use in production.

Cheers for that Ed, or should I reply with what it says on your Birth Certificate

[Edward Lowy]

Cheers for that Ed, or should I reply with what it says on your Birth Certificate

I get called all sorts!