EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

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The EU - IN or OUT

In
17
40%
Out
22
51%
Undecided
4
9%
 
Total votes: 43

Thehateful180
Steady Sixties
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm

nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.

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nikkiboy
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by nikkiboy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:51 pm

Thehateful180 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm
nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.
As someone who used to import from India, China and Bangladesh goods from stainless steel kitchenware to dresses I have a very good experience of tariffs and how HMRC/EU import procedures work, indeed using the customs book and later the online tariff calculator became second nature as did visiting and inspecting factories and inspecting/signing off goods on a Chinese dock for export.
My reading of article 24 of WTO rules allows for a preferrential rate between two countries for a period of up to two years whilst they are negotiation a trade deal, you can set rates at whatever percentage you want or zero as long as both parties are in agreement and this does NOT breach WTO rules.

Of course your statement of countries dealing with a neighbour not on WTO terms is true, why? because they negotiate a TRADE DEAL which supercedes WTO rules. May I suggest that you stop listening to the BBC and actually do a little research before you allow the media to scare you into agreeing with them.
As for Andrew Neil he is a decent reporter and naturally will take to opposite side to whomever he his interviewing. The BBC have been extremely bias toward remain, I think I posted on here the ludicrous story they had that there would be no sandwich fillings if we leave with no deal, a week ago they were scaring people into believing that they couldn't drive in the EU after the 29th March without a special permit and there was a huge wait blah blah, when they truth was that the EU had already agreed to recognise UK insurance in a reciprocal arrangement agreed back last May.

Fortunately their scare tactics are only fooling really stupid people who lack the ability of independent thought.

Quick question, look at the labels on the clothes you are wearing, are they from the EU or as the majority of clothing from China/Pakistan/India? If they are from the far east then how did they manage to get them through customs? we are being told that goods from France won't be able to come here if there's no deal? We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms so how the hell do we get Mexican avocados, Moroccan tomatoes, Nigerian beans, Columbian coffee, Korean phones, South African and Australian wines?

I had this conversation with Paddy at Lakeside, goods from any part of the world MUST have a manifest stating what it is and the customs codes for each item, INCLUDING goods from France, Spain and Germany. When you do your VAT returns you have to include how much worth of goods you exported to or imported from the EU. This myth that goods and people travel seemlessly from the EU to the UK at the moment is laughable, when you board the ferry for France they take your passport details and enquire if you have over your customs allocation - think about that for a moment, if trade and movement is so seemsless and free now why do they need your passport details and why do they have the option to search your luggage at customs when you go to and come back from Spain?
It is all one big scare tactic, at the moment if you import goods from the EU you have to have the correct EU tariff code (aka commodity codes) and description on the customs declaration that YOU MUST HAVE. Have a guess what you will need to have after we leave the EU - the correct Tariff code, description and customs declaration.
Goods coming from the EU now are subject to spot checks by UK customs and the same will happen after we leave. If we have ten lorries a day from BMW with parts and they have done this every day for ten years does anyone really think that when customs see the electronic manifest they will suddenly decide to open every lorry and check it - scaremongering pure and simple.
Ginge wrote:the cancer has been cut from the BDO
21st April 2016 7:01am

Thehateful180
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm

You are either badly mistaken or lying if you think we deal with the 'majority of countries' on WTO terms. A bit of research might have stopped you embarassing yourself. We trade with 24 countries on WTO terms. We trade with more than twice as many nations than that through Free trade deals via the EU. Do you know how many countries trade exclusively on WTO rules? None. Mauritiana may have briefly done but no longer. Hardly a ringing endorsement of WTO terms.

You were conned Nikki. You'll be ok seeing as Wayne kindly let you keep your post office, but it's the factory workers from Hull, the farmers etc. All of them conned by the haunted pencil Jacob Rees Mogg, the man who pretends to be pro brexit because he wants to be Prime Minister; Boris Johnson and chums. It won't be Armageddon like the Limp Dems would have you believe, but it will hurt the workers. Edwin Hayward who worked at a senior level within the WTO is scathing of the prospectof a no deal brexit, but what would he know?...

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nikkiboy
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by nikkiboy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:19 am

Thehateful180 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm
You are either badly mistaken or lying if you think we deal with the 'majority of countries' on WTO terms. A bit of research might have stopped you embarassing yourself. We trade with 24 countries on WTO terms. We trade with more than twice as many nations than that through Free trade deals via the EU. Do you know how many countries trade exclusively on WTO rules? None. Mauritiana may have briefly done but no longer. Hardly a ringing endorsement of WTO terms.

You were conned Nikki. You'll be ok seeing as Wayne kindly let you keep your post office, but it's the factory workers from Hull, the farmers etc. All of them conned by the haunted pencil Jacob Rees Mogg, the man who pretends to be pro brexit because he wants to be Prime Minister; Boris Johnson and chums. It won't be Armageddon like the Limp Dems would have you believe, but it will hurt the workers. Edwin Hayward who worked at a senior level within the WTO is scathing of the prospectof a no deal brexit, but what would he know?...
Where did I say we trade with most countries on WTO terms? That's right I didn't so who's the one who's just been proven a liar?
I love it when people trying to scare others trot out an 'expert' to tell us how the world will end if we don't follow their agenda. The experts told us that we must join the exchange rate mechanism or risk financial Armageddon, we didn't and the UK prospered. Experts told us that we had to adopt the euro or face our currency collapsing, we didn't and the pound remained one of the most stable currencies. Experts told us that the day after a vote to leave the EU the country would be plunged into recession, collapse and we'd attract no inward investment, we voted Brexit and have record employment, record investment and are in the top three performing economies, out performing EU countries.
So bring on your 'expert' opinions and pessimism on the UK and it's capabilities because you know what, we'll take it with a massive pinch of salt.

Rees Mogg is probably the most honest and intelligent politician in the whole Brexit situation, he and Davies are absolutely spot on when they say we need to head toward a no deal because only then and at the 11th hour will the EU come back with what we want and need.
There is not one sane person who doesn't want a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU but they will only remove their protectionist red lines once they are convinced the UK will just walk away, Theresa may hasn't been strong enough but her deal actually ticks all of the boxes if the backstop and regulatory alignment and subjection to the ECJ are removed and the EU will remove them if we hold firm. They have already started to change their 'no renegotiation' rhetoric over the last few days, more will follow if we hold steady and look like we're prepared for no deal.

Point being we all want a good deal but we cannot be frightened into accepting any deal and must be prepared to walk away with no deal which will not be as catastrophic as the 'experts' are saying. Remember we can agree a zero tariff arrangement with the EU under WTO rules whilst a free trade deal is negotiated.
My view is the backstop will be removed (it was never needed anyway) and jurisdiction by the ECJ will be removed or watered down with some form of joint decision between the ECJ and UK courts and we will get a comprehensive free trade arrangement, That way the deal will be ratified by Westminster.
Ginge wrote:the cancer has been cut from the BDO
21st April 2016 7:01am

Thehateful180
Steady Sixties
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:41 am

nikkiboy wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:19 am
Thehateful180 wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm
You are either badly mistaken or lying if you think we deal with the 'majority of countries' on WTO terms. A bit of research might have stopped you embarassing yourself. We trade with 24 countries on WTO terms. We trade with more than twice as many nations than that through Free trade deals via the EU. Do you know how many countries trade exclusively on WTO rules? None. Mauritiana may have briefly done but no longer. Hardly a ringing endorsement of WTO terms.

You were conned Nikki. You'll be ok seeing as Wayne kindly let you keep your post office, but it's the factory workers from Hull, the farmers etc. All of them conned by the haunted pencil Jacob Rees Mogg, the man who pretends to be pro brexit because he wants to be Prime Minister; Boris Johnson and chums. It won't be Armageddon like the Limp Dems would have you believe, but it will hurt the workers. Edwin Hayward who worked at a senior level within the WTO is scathing of the prospectof a no deal brexit, but what would he know?...
Where did I say we trade with most countries on WTO terms? That's right I didn't so who's the one who's just been proven a liar?
I love it when people trying to scare others trot out an 'expert' to tell us how the world will end if we don't follow their agenda. The experts told us that we must join the exchange rate mechanism or risk financial Armageddon, we didn't and the UK prospered. Experts told us that we had to adopt the euro or face our currency collapsing, we didn't and the pound remained one of the most stable currencies. Experts told us that the day after a vote to leave the EU the country would be plunged into recession, collapse and we'd attract no inward investment, we voted Brexit and have record employment, record investment and are in the top three performing economies, out performing EU countries.
So bring on your 'expert' opinions and pessimism on the UK and it's capabilities because you know what, we'll take it with a massive pinch of salt.

Rees Mogg is probably the most honest and intelligent politician in the whole Brexit situation, he and Davies are absolutely spot on when they say we need to head toward a no deal because only then and at the 11th hour will the EU come back with what we want and need.
There is not one sane person who doesn't want a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU but they will only remove their protectionist red lines once they are convinced the UK will just walk away, Theresa may hasn't been strong enough but her deal actually ticks all of the boxes if the backstop and regulatory alignment and subjection to the ECJ are removed and the EU will remove them if we hold firm. They have already started to change their 'no renegotiation' rhetoric over the last few days, more will follow if we hold steady and look like we're prepared for no deal.

Point being we all want a good deal but we cannot be frightened into accepting any deal and must be prepared to walk away with no deal which will not be as catastrophic as the 'experts' are saying.
My view is the backstop will be removed (it was never needed anyway) and jurisdiction by the ECJ will be removed or watered down with some form of joint decision between the ECJ and UK courts and we will get a comprehensive free trade arrangement, That way the deal will be ratified by Westminster.
You said "We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms". If you care to read your own post back you'll see it there. Rees Mogg isn't intelligent. He is a man educated far beyond his intelligence. He makes some 15th century reference every now and then and the idiots lap it up. He gets his numbers from the discredited economist Pateick Minford. Mogg has never even been a junior minister, and owes everything he has to inherited wealth.

Mogg stands to gain financially when the pound collapses due to the nature of his business interests. That clown can of course recommend playing brinksmanship with the EU. It isn't him who will suffer if it goes tits up. It's a game to people like him, a game that he wins regardless of the outcome thanks to Daddy's money.

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nikkiboy
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by nikkiboy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:08 am

Where did I state that we trade with most countries on WTO terms?
Quote it because I can't find it.
Ginge wrote:the cancer has been cut from the BDO
21st April 2016 7:01am

Thehateful180
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Posts: 120
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:18 am

nikkiboy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:51 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm
nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.
As someone who used to import from India, China and Bangladesh goods from stainless steel kitchenware to dresses I have a very good experience of tariffs and how HMRC/EU import procedures work, indeed using the customs book and later the online tariff calculator became second nature as did visiting and inspecting factories and inspecting/signing off goods on a Chinese dock for export.
My reading of article 24 of WTO rules allows for a preferrential rate between two countries for a period of up to two years whilst they are negotiation a trade deal, you can set rates at whatever percentage you want or zero as long as both parties are in agreement and this does NOT breach WTO rules.

Of course your statement of countries dealing with a neighbour not on WTO terms is true, why? because they negotiate a TRADE DEAL which supercedes WTO rules. May I suggest that you stop listening to the BBC and actually do a little research before you allow the media to scare you into agreeing with them.
As for Andrew Neil he is a decent reporter and naturally will take to opposite side to whomever he his interviewing. The BBC have been extremely bias toward remain, I think I posted on here the ludicrous story they had that there would be no sandwich fillings if we leave with no deal, a week ago they were scaring people into believing that they couldn't drive in the EU after the 29th March without a special permit and there was a huge wait blah blah, when they truth was that the EU had already agreed to recognise UK insurance in a reciprocal arrangement agreed back last May.

Fortunately their scare tactics are only fooling really stupid people who lack the ability of independent thought.

Quick question, look at the labels on the clothes you are wearing, are they from the EU or as the majority of clothing from China/Pakistan/India? If they are from the far east then how did they manage to get them through customs? we are being told that goods from France won't be able to come here if there's no deal? We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms so how the hell do we get Mexican avocados, Moroccan tomatoes, Nigerian beans, Columbian coffee, Korean phones, South African and Australian wines?

I had this conversation with Paddy at Lakeside, goods from any part of the world MUST have a manifest stating what it is and the customs codes for each item, INCLUDING goods from France, Spain and Germany. When you do your VAT returns you have to include how much worth of goods you exported to or imported from the EU. This myth that goods and people travel seemlessly from the EU to the UK at the moment is laughable, when you board the ferry for France they take your passport details and enquire if you have over your customs allocation - think about that for a moment, if trade and movement is so seemsless and free now why do they need your passport details and why do they have the option to search your luggage at customs when you go to and come back from Spain?
It is all one big scare tactic, at the moment if you import goods from the EU you have to have the correct EU tariff code (aka commodity codes) and description on the customs declaration that YOU MUST HAVE. Have a guess what you will need to have after we leave the EU - the correct Tariff code, description and customs declaration.
Goods coming from the EU now are subject to spot checks by UK customs and the same will happen after we leave. If we have ten lorries a day from BMW with parts and they have done this every day for ten years does anyone really think that when customs see the electronic manifest they will suddenly decide to open every lorry and check it - scaremongering pure and simple.
Hope this helps.

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nikkiboy
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by nikkiboy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:03 pm

Thehateful180 wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:18 am
nikkiboy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:51 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm
nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.
As someone who used to import from India, China and Bangladesh goods from stainless steel kitchenware to dresses I have a very good experience of tariffs and how HMRC/EU import procedures work, indeed using the customs book and later the online tariff calculator became second nature as did visiting and inspecting factories and inspecting/signing off goods on a Chinese dock for export.
My reading of article 24 of WTO rules allows for a preferrential rate between two countries for a period of up to two years whilst they are negotiation a trade deal, you can set rates at whatever percentage you want or zero as long as both parties are in agreement and this does NOT breach WTO rules.

Of course your statement of countries dealing with a neighbour not on WTO terms is true, why? because they negotiate a TRADE DEAL which supercedes WTO rules. May I suggest that you stop listening to the BBC and actually do a little research before you allow the media to scare you into agreeing with them.
As for Andrew Neil he is a decent reporter and naturally will take to opposite side to whomever he his interviewing. The BBC have been extremely bias toward remain, I think I posted on here the ludicrous story they had that there would be no sandwich fillings if we leave with no deal, a week ago they were scaring people into believing that they couldn't drive in the EU after the 29th March without a special permit and there was a huge wait blah blah, when they truth was that the EU had already agreed to recognise UK insurance in a reciprocal arrangement agreed back last May.

Fortunately their scare tactics are only fooling really stupid people who lack the ability of independent thought.

Quick question, look at the labels on the clothes you are wearing, are they from the EU or as the majority of clothing from China/Pakistan/India? If they are from the far east then how did they manage to get them through customs? we are being told that goods from France won't be able to come here if there's no deal? We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms so how the hell do we get Mexican avocados, Moroccan tomatoes, Nigerian beans, Columbian coffee, Korean phones, South African and Australian wines?

I had this conversation with Paddy at Lakeside, goods from any part of the world MUST have a manifest stating what it is and the customs codes for each item, INCLUDING goods from France, Spain and Germany. When you do your VAT returns you have to include how much worth of goods you exported to or imported from the EU. This myth that goods and people travel seemlessly from the EU to the UK at the moment is laughable, when you board the ferry for France they take your passport details and enquire if you have over your customs allocation - think about that for a moment, if trade and movement is so seemsless and free now why do they need your passport details and why do they have the option to search your luggage at customs when you go to and come back from Spain?
It is all one big scare tactic, at the moment if you import goods from the EU you have to have the correct EU tariff code (aka commodity codes) and description on the customs declaration that YOU MUST HAVE. Have a guess what you will need to have after we leave the EU - the correct Tariff code, description and customs declaration.
Goods coming from the EU now are subject to spot checks by UK customs and the same will happen after we leave. If we have ten lorries a day from BMW with parts and they have done this every day for ten years does anyone really think that when customs see the electronic manifest they will suddenly decide to open every lorry and check it - scaremongering pure and simple.
Hope this helps.
There, that wasn't hard was it. If you're going to put someone's supposed quote into inverted commas as least have the decency to get the quote correct, it's written down after all.

OK now let me tell you something that a quick google search will not, I will try and make this brief as I'm working.

The EU and by extension the UK do have many trade agreements around the world with individual countries and blocs of countries acting as one. Trade agreements, customs unions and the single market are totally different things. In the single market there are no restrictions between something coming from Warsaw or Warrington and no tariffs, it treats every EU country as if it were one.
A customs union (like we have with Turkey) means that tariffs charged for goods from outside that union are the same whether they arrive in Istanbul or Inverness, it also means that goods covered under the union can move tariff free between the EU and Turkey, there are exclusions though.
A trade agreement is an agreement between two (or more) trading partners that they will have special rates for specified goods and services between the two countries.

No trade agreement the EU has signed with an outside country covers all goods and services, most don't cover services at all and all (including Canada) have restrictions on certain types of goods. So you may find that car parts are zero tariff yet dairy products are 20%. The EU is very protectionist (not necessarily a bad thing) so will have excluded some of it's main manufacturing goods from such trade agreements in order to stop it's market from being flooded with 'cheap' foreign goods which threaten the economy and jobs of EU citizens.

The bit google didn't tell you when you searched and you never noticed is that we only trade 'solely' on WTO terms with twenty odd countries because these are the countries that we have no trade agreements with, this is true but for all the other over a hundred countries that do have some trade agreements with the EU we trade the goods and services that are NOT covered under the trade agreement UNDER WTO TERMS.

So we trade under WTO terms with virtually everyone outside the EU (European Economic Area to be a bit more accurate).

Now I'm sure you'll google the hell out of this and find an anomaly in my answer but hey it's the tinterweb :)
Ginge wrote:the cancer has been cut from the BDO
21st April 2016 7:01am

neil9629
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by neil9629 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:10 pm

nikkiboy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:51 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm
nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.
As someone who used to import from India, China and Bangladesh goods from stainless steel kitchenware to dresses I have a very good experience of tariffs and how HMRC/EU import procedures work, indeed using the customs book and later the online tariff calculator became second nature as did visiting and inspecting factories and inspecting/signing off goods on a Chinese dock for export.
My reading of article 24 of WTO rules allows for a preferrential rate between two countries for a period of up to two years whilst they are negotiation a trade deal, you can set rates at whatever percentage you want or zero as long as both parties are in agreement and this does NOT breach WTO rules.

Of course your statement of countries dealing with a neighbour not on WTO terms is true, why? because they negotiate a TRADE DEAL which supercedes WTO rules. May I suggest that you stop listening to the BBC and actually do a little research before you allow the media to scare you into agreeing with them.
As for Andrew Neil he is a decent reporter and naturally will take to opposite side to whomever he his interviewing. The BBC have been extremely bias toward remain, I think I posted on here the ludicrous story they had that there would be no sandwich fillings if we leave with no deal, a week ago they were scaring people into believing that they couldn't drive in the EU after the 29th March without a special permit and there was a huge wait blah blah, when they truth was that the EU had already agreed to recognise UK insurance in a reciprocal arrangement agreed back last May.

Fortunately their scare tactics are only fooling really stupid people who lack the ability of independent thought.

Quick question, look at the labels on the clothes you are wearing, are they from the EU or as the majority of clothing from China/Pakistan/India? If they are from the far east then how did they manage to get them through customs? we are being told that goods from France won't be able to come here if there's no deal? We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms so how the hell do we get Mexican avocados, Moroccan tomatoes, Nigerian beans, Columbian coffee, Korean phones, South African and Australian wines?

I had this conversation with Paddy at Lakeside, goods from any part of the world MUST have a manifest stating what it is and the customs codes for each item, INCLUDING goods from France, Spain and Germany. When you do your VAT returns you have to include how much worth of goods you exported to or imported from the EU. This myth that goods and people travel seemlessly from the EU to the UK at the moment is laughable, when you board the ferry for France they take your passport details and enquire if you have over your customs allocation - think about that for a moment, if trade and movement is so seemsless and free now why do they need your passport details and why do they have the option to search your luggage at customs when you go to and come back from Spain?
It is all one big scare tactic, at the moment if you import goods from the EU you have to have the correct EU tariff code (aka commodity codes) and description on the customs declaration that YOU MUST HAVE. Have a guess what you will need to have after we leave the EU - the correct Tariff code, description and customs declaration.
Goods coming from the EU now are subject to spot checks by UK customs and the same will happen after we leave. If we have ten lorries a day from BMW with parts and they have done this every day for ten years does anyone really think that when customs see the electronic manifest they will suddenly decide to open every lorry and check it - scaremongering pure and simple.
Not to shabby at all.

Thehateful180
Steady Sixties
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:29 pm

nikkiboy wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:03 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:18 am
nikkiboy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:51 pm
Thehateful180 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:49 pm
nikkiboy wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:35 pm
Oh and just to put a little meat on the bones and show the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Club) bias there is a process under WTO terms where you can remove all tariffs with any country (or Bloc) with whom you are in discussions over a trade deal without affecting tariffs for everyone else for a period of two years.
I think you are merely proving that you know next to nothing about such tariffs. It's amazing how pretty much no country in the world trades with it's closest neighbours on WTO terms.

Are you suggesting that prominently pro brexit Andrew Neil is somehow biased against brexit? Quite a stretch there.
As someone who used to import from India, China and Bangladesh goods from stainless steel kitchenware to dresses I have a very good experience of tariffs and how HMRC/EU import procedures work, indeed using the customs book and later the online tariff calculator became second nature as did visiting and inspecting factories and inspecting/signing off goods on a Chinese dock for export.
My reading of article 24 of WTO rules allows for a preferrential rate between two countries for a period of up to two years whilst they are negotiation a trade deal, you can set rates at whatever percentage you want or zero as long as both parties are in agreement and this does NOT breach WTO rules.

Of course your statement of countries dealing with a neighbour not on WTO terms is true, why? because they negotiate a TRADE DEAL which supercedes WTO rules. May I suggest that you stop listening to the BBC and actually do a little research before you allow the media to scare you into agreeing with them.
As for Andrew Neil he is a decent reporter and naturally will take to opposite side to whomever he his interviewing. The BBC have been extremely bias toward remain, I think I posted on here the ludicrous story they had that there would be no sandwich fillings if we leave with no deal, a week ago they were scaring people into believing that they couldn't drive in the EU after the 29th March without a special permit and there was a huge wait blah blah, when they truth was that the EU had already agreed to recognise UK insurance in a reciprocal arrangement agreed back last May.

Fortunately their scare tactics are only fooling really stupid people who lack the ability of independent thought.

Quick question, look at the labels on the clothes you are wearing, are they from the EU or as the majority of clothing from China/Pakistan/India? If they are from the far east then how did they manage to get them through customs? we are being told that goods from France won't be able to come here if there's no deal? We deal with the majority of countries on WTO terms so how the hell do we get Mexican avocados, Moroccan tomatoes, Nigerian beans, Columbian coffee, Korean phones, South African and Australian wines?

I had this conversation with Paddy at Lakeside, goods from any part of the world MUST have a manifest stating what it is and the customs codes for each item, INCLUDING goods from France, Spain and Germany. When you do your VAT returns you have to include how much worth of goods you exported to or imported from the EU. This myth that goods and people travel seemlessly from the EU to the UK at the moment is laughable, when you board the ferry for France they take your passport details and enquire if you have over your customs allocation - think about that for a moment, if trade and movement is so seemsless and free now why do they need your passport details and why do they have the option to search your luggage at customs when you go to and come back from Spain?
It is all one big scare tactic, at the moment if you import goods from the EU you have to have the correct EU tariff code (aka commodity codes) and description on the customs declaration that YOU MUST HAVE. Have a guess what you will need to have after we leave the EU - the correct Tariff code, description and customs declaration.
Goods coming from the EU now are subject to spot checks by UK customs and the same will happen after we leave. If we have ten lorries a day from BMW with parts and they have done this every day for ten years does anyone really think that when customs see the electronic manifest they will suddenly decide to open every lorry and check it - scaremongering pure and simple.
Hope this helps.
There, that wasn't hard was it. If you're going to put someone's supposed quote into inverted commas as least have the decency to get the quote correct, it's written down after all.

OK now let me tell you something that a quick google search will not, I will try and make this brief as I'm working.

The EU and by extension the UK do have many trade agreements around the world with individual countries and blocs of countries acting as one. Trade agreements, customs unions and the single market are totally different things. In the single market there are no restrictions between something coming from Warsaw or Warrington and no tariffs, it treats every EU country as if it were one.
A customs union (like we have with Turkey) means that tariffs charged for goods from outside that union are the same whether they arrive in Istanbul or Inverness, it also means that goods covered under the union can move tariff free between the EU and Turkey, there are exclusions though.
A trade agreement is an agreement between two (or more) trading partners that they will have special rates for specified goods and services between the two countries.

No trade agreement the EU has signed with an outside country covers all goods and services, most don't cover services at all and all (including Canada) have restrictions on certain types of goods. So you may find that car parts are zero tariff yet dairy products are 20%. The EU is very protectionist (not necessarily a bad thing) so will have excluded some of it's main manufacturing goods from such trade agreements in order to stop it's market from being flooded with 'cheap' foreign goods which threaten the economy and jobs of EU citizens.

The bit google didn't tell you when you searched and you never noticed is that we only trade 'solely' on WTO terms with twenty odd countries because these are the countries that we have no trade agreements with, this is true but for all the other over a hundred countries that do have some trade agreements with the EU we trade the goods and services that are NOT covered under the trade agreement UNDER WTO TERMS.

So we trade under WTO terms with virtually everyone outside the EU (European Economic Area to be a bit more accurate).

Now I'm sure you'll google the hell out of this and find an anomaly in my answer but hey it's the tinterweb :)
I don't just use google y'know bit there but yes there is more than one anomoly in your answer. There's a wee bit of knowledge between these ears. But this must be incredibly tedious reading for everyone else so it can be parked in the 'agree to disagree' bay.

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nikkiboy
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by nikkiboy » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:57 pm

We'll have to discuss it further over a few single malts some time :)
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21st April 2016 7:01am

Thehateful180
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Re: EU Referendum - IN or OUT? - POLL ADDED

Post by Thehateful180 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:41 pm

nikkiboy wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:57 pm
We'll have to discuss it further over a few single malts some time :)
If any can be gotten in after brexit. ;-)

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