Stephen Bunting

[Rout]

Think about that and tell me whether my statement that there are definitely only 2 or 3 players better in the world than Bunting right now.

It is absolutely impossible to prove one way or the other.

So we are in agreement.

And your comparison to Ian White really doesn't need me to comment on it at all. The stupidity of it speaks for itself.

No, we are not in agreement. You think talking about Bunting as a top 16 PDC player is an 'insult'. I see it as a completely fair assessment of his ability at this stage. No doubt a couple of years ago you'd have been describing Mark Webster being labelled a top 16 PDC player as an 'insult'. The quality of the fields at Lakeside and the World Masters is not of sufficient quality or depth to form a competent judgement. And one pro tour win is woefully short. You were engaging in hyperbole based on not very much. As for Ian White - why is that stupid? It is quite easy to guage the standard at which someone performs consistently if you pay attention. Ian White, right now, is every bit as good a player as Bunting - the Lakeside and Masters wins in fairly sub standard fields are blinding you to the reality.

I've watched Bunting tear apart fields in opens that contain many top PDC (and other top BDO players). I don't need you to tell me about the respective qualities of the Lakeside fields versus masters fields to tell me how good the guy is. I think if you understand the game you can realise how good he is.

So I don't need to keep labouring the same point. If you think Ian White and Stephen Bunting are on a par, you carry on pal. Set a reminder, and in two years time, lets revisit this thread and see which of the two of us looks utterly ridiculous.

[Moongoose McQueeen]

If you think Ian White and Stephen Bunting are on a par, you carry on pal. Set a reminder, and in two years time, lets revisit this thread and see which of the two of us looks utterly ridiculous.

Beautiful

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Although you do realise that after 2 years they'll be using the old "The PDC has improved him as a player, playing against top players week in - week out" chestnut.

As learned dartsmen we would then list 3/4 of the field of "top players" and deride it as the bupkis it really is

[Murphio]

Think about that and tell me whether my statement that there are definitely only 2 or 3 players better in the world than Bunting right now.

It is absolutely impossible to prove one way or the other.

So we are in agreement.

And your comparison to Ian White really doesn't need me to comment on it at all. The stupidity of it speaks for itself.

No, we are not in agreement. You think talking about Bunting as a top 16 PDC player is an 'insult'. I see it as a completely fair assessment of his ability at this stage. No doubt a couple of years ago you'd have been describing Mark Webster being labelled a top 16 PDC player as an 'insult'. The quality of the fields at Lakeside and the World Masters is not of sufficient quality or depth to form a competent judgement. And one pro tour win is woefully short. You were engaging in hyperbole based on not very much. As for Ian White - why is that stupid? It is quite easy to guage the standard at which someone performs consistently if you pay attention. Ian White, right now, is every bit as good a player as Bunting - the Lakeside and Masters wins in fairly sub standard fields are blinding you to the reality.

I've watched Bunting tear apart fields in opens that contain many top PDC (and other top BDO players). I don't need you to tell me about the respective qualities of the Lakeside fields versus masters fields to tell me how good the guy is. I think if you understand the game you can realise how good he is.

So I don't need to keep labouring the same point. If you think Ian White and Stephen Bunting are on a par, you carry on pal. Set a reminder, and in two years time, lets revisit this thread and see which of the two of us looks utterly ridiculous.

I think you need to calm down a bit. I have said Bunting is a cracking player. He is not as good, yet, as you appear to believe though. What he does in the years to come is irrelevant since we are talking about the here and the now. I have no doubt he will make a good impact and the title he won at the weekend certainly won't be his last. Top three right now - utter nonsense, regardless of you fudging your hyperbole with the word 'definitely'.

[ifm]

Can't be arsed to read the paragraphs of no doubt pointless bunk, the guy is world champion, that says all you need to know.
World class by any meaningful standard and if anyone doubts that then they are either on the wind up or are thick.
End of thread.

[Rout]

Although you do realise that after 2 years they'll be using the old "The PDC has improved him as a player, playing against top players week in - week out" chestnut.

That is exactly why they want/need you to wait 2 years and the point I was making earlier about how you can't ever convince these people that anyone outside the PDC top x can be inside the world top x until they get inside the PDC top x.

Proven by Murphios last statement "what he does in the future is irrelevant, we are talking about the here and now"

So a guy who cleans up outside the PDC can't possibly be seen as a top PDC player because he did it without facing top PDC players.

And if he does it in the next couple of years, its nothing to do with his former achievements. . .

I love this forum.

[Murphio]

Can't be arsed to read the paragraphs of no doubt pointless bunk, the guy is world champion, that says all you need to know.
World class by any meaningful standard and if anyone doubts that then they are either on the wind up or are thick.
End of thread.

No one has said he isn't world class - of course he is. Rout described his label as a top 16 PDC player as 'an insult'. That strikes me as odd when you have quality players like Terry Jenkins, Kevin Painter, Gary Anderson, Dean Winstanley and Mark Webster not even in the top 16.

[Stubby]

After 2 years his ranking will be a fact - pointless guessing now.

[Paddy McGinty]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Although you do realise that after 2 years they'll be using the old "The PDC has improved him as a player, playing against top players week in - week out" chestnut.

That is exactly why they want/need you to wait 2 years and the point I was making earlier about how you can't ever convince these people that anyone outside the PDC top x can be inside the world top x until they get inside the PDC top x.

Proven by Murphios last statement "what he does in the future is irrelevant, we are talking about the here and now"

So a guy who cleans up outside the PDC can't possibly be seen as a top PDC player because he did it without facing top PDC players.

And if he does it in the next couple of years, its nothing to do with his former achievements. . .

I love this forum.

I like it too. I will be coming here more often. Ginge is different on here though

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

[Ginge]

Although you do realise that after 2 years they'll be using the old "The PDC has improved him as a player, playing against top players week in - week out" chestnut.

That is exactly why they want/need you to wait 2 years and the point I was making earlier about how you can't ever convince these people that anyone outside the PDC top x can be inside the world top x until they get inside the PDC top x.

Proven by Murphios last statement "what he does in the future is irrelevant, we are talking about the here and now"

So a guy who cleans up outside the PDC can't possibly be seen as a top PDC player because he did it without facing top PDC players.

And if he does it in the next couple of years, its nothing to do with his former achievements. . .

I love this forum.

I like it too. I will be coming here more often. Ginge is different on here though

Nah, I'm still annoying on here.

[Paddy McGinty]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

Yes that's about it...............only a fool or wind up merchant would argue otherwise.

[Murphio]

After 2 years his ranking will be a fact - pointless guessing now.

I don't think it's really about Bunting to be honest. It's just a tired old PDC v BDO debate which asserts that winning the Masters and Lakeisde ought to automatically elevate you to some lofty position in the PDC rankings. Rout claims on the one hand that comparing Bunting with Huybrechts, Anderson, Jenkins, Painter, White, King - all guys in and around the PDC top 16 - as an 'insult' and yet he claims there is a 'fag paper' between them all. What is it to be? The one is laughing at the other.

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

Yes that's about it...............only a fool or wind up merchant would argue otherwise.

could you pm me a list of whose opinions I can disregard, please Paddy?

cheers

[Murphio]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

Yes that's about it...............only a fool or wind up merchant would argue otherwise.

could you pm me a list of whose opinions I can disregard, please Paddy?

cheers

Word of advice bud, Paddy ought to be very top of your list.

[Paddy McGinty]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

Yes that's about it...............only a fool or wind up merchant would argue otherwise.

could you pm me a list of whose opinions I can disregard, please Paddy?

cheers

No problem, there's quite a few mind you. 7/8's of the forum have a bias for PDC players and competitions, you can't really blame them because they get far more TV exposure and they can watch their idols and sexy walk on girls and merrily sing along with the infantile chants from the comfort of their arm chairs. They probably have hectic schedules and busy lives so they don't actually get out much and watch non-televised competitions so they don't realise there's many talented players not included in the commercial OOM which of course is only available for a select few who sign up for the private members club, it doesn't include the hundreds of able players that choose for one reason or another not to join the club. Bunting was just one of these many great players and look at the impact he has already made....................... The PDC are very lucky to have him on board, what would they do without this continued support from the BDO?

Padds

[Paddy McGinty]

Having evaluated the current form of what I consider the top players Bunting would actually be number 4 in the entire World, at the moment we have Taylor, MVG, Lewis and Bunting........in no particular order, although I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor falls from the equation over the next two years leaving Bunting in a podium position. Like Rout said..........I don't need to rely a commercial OOM to know who are the most talented players.

Taylor, MVG & Lewis are head and shoulders the 3 best players in the world and between them will hover up the majors imo. Bunting has a better claim than most to be 4th.

Yes that's about it...............only a fool or wind up merchant would argue otherwise.

could you pm me a list of whose opinions I can disregard, please Paddy?

cheers

Word of advice bud, Paddy ought to be very top of your list.

Joking aside Murph, you have to agree Goosey and Rout have made some good solid points.

[Rout]

After 2 years his ranking will be a fact - pointless guessing now.

I don't think it's really about Bunting to be honest. It's just a tired old PDC v BDO debate which asserts that winning the Masters and Lakeisde ought to automatically elevate you to some lofty position in the PDC rankings. Rout claims on the one hand that comparing Bunting with Huybrechts, Anderson, Jenkins, Painter, White, King - all guys in and around the PDC top 16 - as an 'insult' and yet he claims there is a 'fag paper' between them all. What is it to be? The one is laughing at the other.

The "insult" is that some people seem to be stating it as a compliment as to his potential. To me, its a complete given. Its like saying Ronaldo should score 15 goals next season. Its underplaying the guys current ability massively.

Let me break down some of the PDCs superstars that make up the upper echelons of the top 16

Simon Whitlock. PDC World number 3.

You can argue about a major winner all you want, he hasn't won one on either side. Someone who has made it to world number 3 without winning a single important "major" TV title. Even if you have to be really pedantic and include the one he did win, which isn't a major, he still has a CV very unfitting of the third best player in the world. Scott Waites automatically has a better CV than Whitlock and Bunting and Waites CV's really aren't that different. The guy has been a complete bottler on TV for a year or two now and Bunting outclasses him in so many departments.

Dave Chisnall. PDC World number 5.

Were the fields any weaker in the BDO when Chisnall was playing there? There have been no real major defections for years and years before Bunting so I don't see how. Yet Chissy failed to win any majors. Bunting won many. Bunting has switched 5 years sooner than Chissy. Are the pieces falling into place yet for you Murphio?

Peter Wright. PDC World number 6.

A man in form, no doubt. Well done on being in form. Well done on the world final. Lets revisit this in a year or two. Sid Waddell called virtually everyone in the PDC before his demise a future world champion on the back of a few months of good form. It can be really short lived in darts.

Wes Newton. PDC World number 8.

In a few years, you can just read the comment about Hamilton below.

Andy Hamilton. PDC World number 9.

How long, and how many chances, does someone need to try and win something important? Not cut out for winning big titles, simple as that. On the rare occasion his bottle allows a final he collapses completely.

Justin Pipe. PDC World number 12.

A guy that wins games by making others be unable to play their best darts. Like every top player who plays Pipe, if they can find a way to play his slow play, they win. If they let it get to them they lose. If Bunting and Pipe play first to 100, Bunting would walk it.

Bunting is a world away from being in the same class as MVG and Taylor. I think Lewis has enough experience to put him slightly ahead of Bunty, despite some questionable recent form. After that, I can't see how you can look at these lads above and question what I am saying about how there are only 3 players in the world definitely better than Bunting right now.

[Murphio]

Jeepers Rout, that is quite a lot of typing. I have read it three times and I am still not quite sure what to make of it. Funnily enough though I agree with your point that there is a 'fag paper' between the people at the very top. A couple of years ago, for a spell, Simon Whitlock was easily the second best player in world darts - a player you describe as a 'bottler'. Mark Webster qualified for the World Championship by something like 150 quid and went on to make two semi finals in a row. There is such a tiny margin separating all these guys - each have the ability to beat each other on any given day but what separates them is being able to turn it in consistently against the best players in the world. And yet you have described the comparison to Bunting with some amazing other dart players as an 'insult' which I really don't get. I know you tried to row back in your initial assertion but you either believe what you typed or you don't. Is Stephen Bunting in the the top three/four players in the world or isn't he? If you stand by your initial post then I disagree - there is simply insufficient evidence at this juncture to state that.