Harms criticizes media at Grand Slam

[PVDarts501]

Wesley having a point or not?

https://dartsnews.com/harms-criticizes- ... -amateurs/

[Ginge]

If he doesnt like being called amateur, maybe he can do something about it and either a) become amateur, or b) switch.

Vast majority on that side of darts are amateurs. Do the non full-time players in the PDC get narked they are labelled as "professional"?

[PVDarts501]

If he doesnt like being called amateur, maybe he can do something about it and either a) become amateur, or b) switch.

or C) keep his mounth shut.

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

[Ginge]

You cant expect the media to be aware of the job situation of darts players anyway. Especially ones that are barely on TV, from outside the UK.

Blame the BDO for not promoting their players properly....

[Astonvilla]

Does he have a full time job or is he just a full time darts player?

[1205]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

[Stranbougie]

The guy is a balloon , seen him trying to cheat multiple times at the scottish open by bullying the marker that he scored higher than he actually did.

[Astonvilla]

Just like all these so called professional punters who spend their afternoons working on ATR and RUK or writing columns in racing papers.

[markymark]

Fanatics use the fact that the BDO players can't be expected to compete with the PDC boys at the GSOD because they "have jobs" and "don't have time to practice" and, crucially, are "amateurs" so maybe Harms is having a go at the wrong people.

Most of the "darts media" are just people with blogs and probably amateurs themselves anyway!

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

But darts isn't one of those sports. Anyone can enter a local knock-out or open and win a few quid.
That doesn't make them anything but amateur.

Also, this term "semi-professional" can cover a multitude of sins. I used to know a lad who claimed to be a "semi-professional rugby league player". In truth, he got £30 a game, plus petrol money for getting to and from training. By the time he'd bought his boots and training kit for the season, he just about broke even.
I'm afraid I stand by my original point that if your earnings from your chosen sport is not your only source of income, or accounts for the vast majority of your income, then you're an amateur who is lucky enough to earn a second income from something they enjoy doing.

[devosteve]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

technically you might be correct re the use of the word semi professional. But I watch non league football (at step 4 of the non league system). There is some level of payment but I think the players are okay with being described as amateur football players.

Re the situation in darts we know there are professional, semi profesdional/ amateur players in both codes but as a generalisation I think it is fair to say PDC is the professional side of the game whilst the bdo is the amateur side.

as an aside I recall some folk claiming all super league (and even pub league) players are in the bdo system. If so then 99% of bdo players are amateurs.

[Addicks Fan]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

[Addicks Fan]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

as an aside I recall some folk claiming all super league (and even pub league) players are in the bdo system. If so then 99% of bdo players are amateurs.

Well yes, but not Harms or the other BDO representatives at the GSOD

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

Those definitions are fair enough, but the trouble with darts (and other sports) is that earnings and income are largely non-guaranteed.

When I play for my league team, I do so for fun, so on a Tuesday night I'm an amateur.
But if I enter an open / knockout at the weekend, do I suddenly become semi-professional?
Or do I only achieve that status if I make the money? Or what if I make a bit of money but over the course of the day spend more than I win on food and drink, and go home with less that I left the house with: amateur or semi-professional? Is my status affected if they pay me in holiday camp vouchers rather than cash?

Even applying the OED definitions in this case raises more questions than it answers, which is why I went for the professional / amateur definitions I did earlier, which if nothing else are pretty black and white.

[oche balboa]

Look at the pile on lead by Zapp & Phil Davies

Harms thought they should be given more respect it’s an honest view

Amateur has been used as a means of ridicule by PDC fanboys for years

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Look at the pile on lead by Zapp & Phil Davies

Harms thought they should be given more respect it’s an honest view

Amateur has been used as a means of ridicule by PDC fanboys for years

Spot on, Chris

[Si Robin]

"Well, the media is regularly labelling us as amateurs. Maybe our prize money is lower and some of us are working behind their darts career as well, but that doesn’t mean we are amateurs."

Erm, yes it does. If you're not making enough money from darts for it to be your main / only source of income, and you need to work other jobs to support your family, you're no more a professional darts player than a bloke earning a bit of beer money in local knockouts.
And that applies equally to the lower echelons of the PDC as well.

Erm, no. There's a term for it, frequently used in football: semi-professional.

In some sports, if you're an amateur you can't earn or accept money for playing.

Definition from Oxford dictionary:

semi-professional ADJECTIVE
Receiving payment for an activity but not relying entirely on it for a living.

amateur
NOUN
1A person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid basis.

ADJECTIVE
1Engaging or engaged in without payment; non-professional.

I think semi-professional seems nearer the truth

Those definitions are fair enough, but the trouble with darts (and other sports) is that earnings and income are largely non-guaranteed.

When I play for my league team, I do so for fun, so on a Tuesday night I'm an amateur.
But if I enter an open / knockout at the weekend, do I suddenly become semi-professional?
Or do I only achieve that status if I make the money? Or what if I make a bit of money but over the course of the day spend more than I win on food and drink, and go home with less that I left the house with: amateur or semi-professional? Is my status affected if they pay me in holiday camp vouchers rather than cash?

Even applying the OED definitions in this case raises more questions than it answers, which is why I went for the professional / amateur definitions I did earlier, which if nothing else are pretty black and white.

I think the difference between amateur and semi-professional in this case can be broken down to those who travel around chasing points/cash/rankings, and those who go to the odd weekend open where the get together is more important than winning a few games of darts.

You Buzz would be an amateur because you’ve not entered the open to gain points towards Lakeside qualification, whereas Harms, the semi-professional, would be at said open to tick a box, win some coin and get higher in the rankings in the hope of being seeded.

[nikkiboy]

Look at the pile on lead by Zapp & Phil Davies

Harms thought they should be given more respect it’s an honest view

Amateur has been used as a means of ridicule by PDC fanboys for years

Spot on, Chris

If you do it for a living you are a professional, if you fit it around your day job you are an amateur. It is not rocket science.

[oche balboa]

Quite but people have used the term amateur as stern of ridicule for years