TheSandman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:36 am
What does the BDO do for grassroots darts players anyway?
I play weekly, the BDO have never done anything for me.
Leagues I play in, have no BDO affiliation and neither does any tournaments.
So can someone enlighten me?
they just milk the counties for fees and give them little back in return, the counties run all their local leagues and events themselves any way.
exactly. Anyone who think proper grass roots darts would be impacted by BDO Enterprises going under needs their head examined. It basically needs a small voluntary committee to run the BICC, under 'BDO' or not.
England Darts etc can run all the Opens and the WDF a couple of season ending Amateur majors, whether they are on TV or not.
Stranbougie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:12 am
They got to take a look where they make themselves look like fools and amateurs .
No.1 get rid of Des and Bo they are fekkin awful for the brand , and its all about brand these days.
Bring in a proper marketing officer and actually publicise events properly and not some make shift photoshop effort that my 13 year old son could do a better job off.
Easy game.
I really dont think getting rid of Des will help one bit. Just go on fanatics and have a look at the people who defend the BDO no matter what, anyone who ends up taking over is going to be of the same ilk and is just going to think that its a multi million pound business.
Same with getting in someone who is actually good at marketing things, anyone of that type only has to look at the figures involved and the reach of the company to see there is nothing there.
The one thing the BDO has to do is go on their hands and knees to the WDF and ask what it will take to get them back on board. If the answer is to accept themselves as amateur darts, to accept the PDC as professional darts and work to create a proper amateur calendar with the PDCs backing then Des should snap their hand off. Any other alternative will end up with the BDO in the courts being wound up by September.
foggs3355 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am
I don’t think you need to scrap the WDT Just move to hotel ziderdown in Holland useally good crowds there
To save the world masters have that at lakeside crowds not to bad when it was last held there. I think cuz of long contract with o2 world pro stuck there getting sponsor not easy
But I would definitely change way the season split up 1st 3 days afternoon evening Tuesday to Thursday evening only
Keep Friday afternoon Saturday just have woman and men’s semi Then Sunday adds afternoon with women and youth final evening men’s
Foggs are you forgetting the BDO has no right to put a tournament abroad without the consent of the host nations dart org...The NDB...whom have just declined to apply for BDO points for the Dutch Open... Non starter...would have been good before this though.
Going forwards: Even with same board .. Marketing/sponsorship staff either full time employed or outsourced (there are companies out there experienced at this), Technical Management of Live Events (Someone with a knowledge of Live event production..I'm not volunteering)...From then just get the basics right...Tickets could be on sale while that years event is happening (venue is irrelevant if not decided, as easy enough to refund if venue changes and buyer can't make it. If they have signed a 10year agreement at the Indigo...why on earth were they not selling 2021 tickets? Even the Holiday camp opens sell the next year whilst the event is happening. Advertising..Local rags, Metro...many have events sections....then of course good publicity..Starting with Event 1 of the year..the WDT (if it happens)
Foggs are you forgetting the BDO has no right to put a tournament abroad without the consent of the host nations dart org...The NDB...whom have just declined to apply for BDO points for the Dutch Open... Non starter...would have been good before this though.
Going forwards: Even with same board .. Marketing/sponsorship staff either full time employed or outsourced (there are companies out there experienced at this), Technical Management of Live Events (Someone with a knowledge of Live event production..I'm not volunteering)...From then just get the basics right...Tickets could be on sale while that years event is happening (venue is irrelevant if not decided, as easy enough to refund if venue changes and buyer can't make it. If they have signed a 10year agreement at the Indigo...why on earth were they not selling 2021 tickets? Even the Holiday camp opens sell the next year whilst the event is happening. Advertising..Local rags, Metro...many have events sections....then of course good publicity..Starting with Event 1 of the year..the WDT (if it happens)
Des has apparently told players tickets have been sold for 2021. God knows how, or where. Yet another lie.
Very confused thinking between purpose, legal entities and brand.
The BDO was created as a club and the EDO, WDO and SDO now do that job better. The SDO already run their county structure and had announce they were going to separate from the BDO. The non GB bit should be under the WDF because they are the world body.
This is really just some brand IP than could be leveraged by the home nations and the WDF if they had a plan for it. It has no reason to run events as these can be run by the member nations like the internationals are done now.
The current commercial stuff is really simple. If the contracts make commercial sense to the partner (O2, Eurosport, etc) then they will be happy to re-sign them with whoever can provide the value. If they are not commercially viable, which they are clearly not, then you have to restart them all anyway.
The starting point in most of these conversations is fixing what was. This is daft, you are trying to build Blockbuster 2020. The sport is global now and has a well finance professional side that you want to be fully aligned with. That is where you should start with any what happens to the BDO conversation. Focus on retaining the unique value not the structure or power or individual elements.
Stranbougie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:12 am
They got to take a look where they make themselves look like fools and amateurs .
No.1 get rid of Des and Bo they are fekkin awful for the brand , and its all about brand these days.
Bring in a proper marketing officer and actually publicise events properly and not some make shift photoshop effort that my 13 year old son could do a better job off.
Easy game.
I really dont think getting rid of Des will help one bit. Just go on fanatics and have a look at the people who defend the BDO no matter what, anyone who ends up taking over is going to be of the same ilk and is just going to think that its a multi million pound business.
Same with getting in someone who is actually good at marketing things, anyone of that type only has to look at the figures involved and the reach of the company to see there is nothing there.
The one thing the BDO has to do is go on their hands and knees to the WDF and ask what it will take to get them back on board. If the answer is to accept themselves as amateur darts, to accept the PDC as professional darts and work to create a proper amateur calendar with the PDCs backing then Des should snap their hand off. Any other alternative will end up with the BDO in the courts being wound up by September.
Its not about getting pepole on fanatics to disagree , its about getting bums on seats . there is 10k members in fanatics and they couldnt sell out 1600 tickets .
And saying that no point getting someone in to do marketing is just gibberish .
Stranbougie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:12 am
They got to take a look where they make themselves look like fools and amateurs .
No.1 get rid of Des and Bo they are fekkin awful for the brand , and its all about brand these days.
Bring in a proper marketing officer and actually publicise events properly and not some make shift photoshop effort that my 13 year old son could do a better job off.
Easy game.
I really dont think getting rid of Des will help one bit. Just go on fanatics and have a look at the people who defend the BDO no matter what, anyone who ends up taking over is going to be of the same ilk and is just going to think that its a multi million pound business.
Same with getting in someone who is actually good at marketing things, anyone of that type only has to look at the figures involved and the reach of the company to see there is nothing there.
The one thing the BDO has to do is go on their hands and knees to the WDF and ask what it will take to get them back on board. If the answer is to accept themselves as amateur darts, to accept the PDC as professional darts and work to create a proper amateur calendar with the PDCs backing then Des should snap their hand off. Any other alternative will end up with the BDO in the courts being wound up by September.
Its not about getting pepole on fanatics to disagree , its about getting bums on seats . there is 10k members in fanatics and they couldnt sell out 1600 tickets .
And saying that no point getting someone in to do marketing is just gibberish .
If they dont look to improve they will die.
They are already dead. They have no money, no sponsors. no vision, no supporters willing to pay for tickets and come this week again no players.
There is nothing they can do to get out of this on their own. They owe thousands to people and one more tournament like this will put them in the courts.
Getting a marketing person at this point will do absolutely nothing. The brand is worth zero.
Its a simple case of either asking for help from the PDC, apologizing to the people you've upset and hoping they get back working with you (WDF) or you let it fold.
NvH wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:31 am
I'd forget trying to compete with the PDC and just concentrate on grass roots darts. Therefore, scrap the world champs, world masters and world trophy and just concentrate on the amateur side of the game with particular emphasis on youth.
What a silly remark to make, just because they are having a few difficulties at the moment doesn't mean they should scrap the Worlds, still the best comp of the year. they should move it later in the year to spring time, January is a stupid time to have it.
More than "a few difficulties", and the question asked what we would do in their position. As someone who has never really enjoyed the split, less still liked there being two world championships, I simply gave my opinion. And my opinions are never silly
You may be onto something with moving the tournament to spring time though. Having it just after Ally Pally isn't doing it any favours.
But I know you post here just to wind people up so I probably shouldn't bite
If the BDO is to survive it needs to streamline it's operations, as already pointed out in this thread the SDO run the County system north of the border so the BDO's main responsibilities lie with the English counties. There's no reason that the BDO can not run the three majors but run them "on behalf" of the WDF (whose ranking system would supply the field, rather than having two sets of ranking points). Lastly I have no issue in the players being called professional, yes I know the majority have day time jobs so perhaps the term semi-pro should be used, as calling them all amateurs is a little rude! (How many PDC "professionals are actually full time?)
So wayne and des had words
It’s common knowledge me and Des had words last night and in the week of the Worlds
I told him clearly what I think he should do, but no he still insists
it’s still not his fault and blames everyone else for everything .
The man is on another planet
If he walks NOW there’s a slight opportunity for darts and all sides to move forward together quickly for the sake of darts and I’m certain the people involved would make this work. #fact
But he blames everyone else for everything.
Any good he has done and I’m sure there is, but he has ruined by the the way he treats and talks to people, he’s biggest downfall along with assumptions Is He doesn’t know his brand he’s fronting and his brand don’t trust him (the players)
So Des please I will publicly say this to you.
I have no agenda, none whatsoever so stop thinking I have, you’ve always had an agenda, everything is everyone else’s causing but as you’ve put it so many times
YOUR THE CEO OF THE BDO so you must take responsibility.
YOU HAVE FAILED, YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY
Very few in darts (at the worlds) have any respect for you and Paula within the BDO
especially in and around the worlds and your both to blind to see it.
Honestly like I said to last night to you, do the right thing and walk now but have your say at the next AGM, show whatever proof you have about your she said, he said game of blame.
There are many that can help but unfortunately NO ONE WANTS TO TALK WITH YOU or DEAL WITH YOU anymore.
The BDO have no sanctioned events by the WDF anymore and it’s your decisions that have caused this.
To move forward the WDF has to sanction events, whether that will be there own or whether the BDO can help, I don’t know.
I personally think if anything happens to help amateur darts all should be involved so all the best bits can be salvaged.
But unfortunately like I’ve said NO ONE TRUSTS YOU or RESPECTS YOU
Again sorry to be blunt but from what I’ve seen and heard this week the above is so true.
But I’m sure you will disagree and do your own thing because you know best.
Just one more tip before you walk or try to carry on dealing with things the way you do.
Think of the players for once please.
Stop any anxieties they have over the prize fund
Don’t let them wait
Contact them all NOW and pay them immediately what they have coming
Stop the worry of am I or am I not getting paid.
The BDO settlement will happen very quickly if not all ready from ticket sales due.
Pay the players NOW, don’t let them wait.
If you do, this will be the best decision you’ve ever made and maybe you will grab some respect back.
NvH wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:31 am
I'd forget trying to compete with the PDC and just concentrate on grass roots darts. Therefore, scrap the world champs, world masters and world trophy and just concentrate on the amateur side of the game with particular emphasis on youth.
What a silly remark to make, just because they are having a few difficulties at the moment doesn't mean they should scrap the Worlds, still the best comp of the year. they should move it later in the year to spring time, January is a stupid time to have it.
More than "a few difficulties", and the question asked what we would do in their position. As someone who has never really enjoyed the split, less still liked there being two world championships, I simply gave my opinion. And my opinions are never silly
You may be onto something with moving the tournament to spring time though. Having it just after Ally Pally isn't doing it any favours.
But I know you post here just to wind people up so I probably shouldn't bite
Well we agree there, the split was a massive mistake and darts has never been the same since.
Very difficult to fathom how someone who has taken the BDO to the brink of collpase still appears to have pockets of support. I know we all like a bit of banter and sometimes it's fun to poke fun at their ineptitude but I don't want to see the BDO disappear and I believe that goes for the vast majority of darts fans. I also think there is room for the two World Championships to coexist even if one drops 'professional' from the title and works in tandem with the PDC to reuinfy the sport, perhaps, under the WDF umbrella. Adams is correct - the battle for pro darts has been lost. Accept the situation and work with the professional side of the game to get the amatuer side's house in order. There is no need any longer for division - people need to remember it wasn't Barry Hearn who caused the split in darts, it was the players who felt they could no longer earn a living. Had Olly Croft put his own pride and ego at the door it might never have gotten to this stage but here we are, 25 years down the line, and the lessons still haven't been learned.
