Preparation in (pro) darts

[ChrisW]

It’s no boxing it’s darts.

Unless your going from playing Ricky Evans to Justin Pipe it makes no difference

Whitlock and Lewis are comparable in talent these days, so it’s no mvg that’s suddenly appeared.

I would beg to differ about Lewis. Bag'o'shite.

[Duterprat]

Regarding the tweets of a player (IIRC Dobey) after his loss at the Grand Prix when he had to play Whitlock instead of Lewis:

Does it actually matter who you play in terms of preparing for a match? To me that is pretty much bullshit, how would you e.g. change your way of playing depending on the opponent? The goal in darts would normally be to simply score and finish as good as possible, right? The only thing I COULD imagine is somehow adapting to the "speed" of the opponent, but a pro player should be able to do that by default as there is not just the ONE slow/quick player around?

I used to play competitive chess on a fairly high level where one - even before the computer age - would not have much of a chance w/o preparing for an opponent of similar strength for hours and hours because one knew e.g. the openings and playing style from databases/chess newspapers. Even longer depending on the importance of and the time before the match (and I hated it when we had teams league matches and the other team had to replace someone so I got the "wrong" opponent).
I also get it for individual sports like Boxing/MMA or teams sports where you have to adapt to the style of a (usually the better) opponent or team.

But when it comes to darts, the ways how you can "influence" the opponent and vice versa seems rather limited, unless illegal gamesmanship is applied.

It makes a difference in both attitude and the way you approach it, speed up a slower player, slow down a fast one etc.

Sure, but how would your preparation change for a specific opponent? Do players hire Justin Pipe or Smiffy when they know that their round 1 game will be against a slower player? Attitude isn't something you practise for weeks upfront, or am I wrong?

And shouldn't a pro have the experience to deal with slower and quicker players independently from who they are?

[Duterprat]

Of course it does in these type of competitions. Managers will be advising players how to play against player's playing styles etc.
Makes a massive difference.

But how? It is not as if Dobey would have thrown his darts from a different stance or at different angles against another opponent, nor would he have made a decision to score less/more/different segments. They can only give advice that is bordering on gamesmanship in order to make it "uncomfortable" for the opponent then?

[ChrisW]

Of course it does in these type of competitions. Managers will be advising players how to play against player's playing styles etc.
Makes a massive difference.

But how? It is not as if Dobey would have thrown his darts from a different stance or at different angles against another opponent, nor would he have made a decision to score less/more/different segments. They can only give advice that is bordering on gamesmanship in order to make it "uncomfortable" for the opponent then?

Darts is a lot about pep talks these days. You beat him before etc. Slow him down a little if he wins legs. etc All a different game from years back.
Those pieces of advice will change depending on the player.
The manager knows which players are the bogey players. And therefore a bigger pep talk required.
Can all make a difference.

[TheSandman]

It’s no boxing it’s darts.

Unless your going from playing Ricky Evans to Justin Pipe it makes no difference

Whitlock and Lewis are comparable in talent these days, so it’s no mvg that’s suddenly appeared.

I would beg to differ about Lewis. Bag'o'shite.

So dobey thought he was hard done by getting Whitlock and a potentially harder game?

[ChrisW]

It’s no boxing it’s darts.

Unless your going from playing Ricky Evans to Justin Pipe it makes no difference

Whitlock and Lewis are comparable in talent these days, so it’s no mvg that’s suddenly appeared.

I would beg to differ about Lewis. Bag'o'shite.

So dobey thought he was hard done by getting Whitlock and a potentially harder game?

Yes but not potentially because he lost.

[Duterprat]

Of course it does in these type of competitions. Managers will be advising players how to play against player's playing styles etc.
Makes a massive difference.

But how? It is not as if Dobey would have thrown his darts from a different stance or at different angles against another opponent, nor would he have made a decision to score less/more/different segments. They can only give advice that is bordering on gamesmanship in order to make it "uncomfortable" for the opponent then?

Darts is a lot about pep talks these days. You beat him before etc. Slow him down a little if he wins legs. etc All a different game from years back.
Those pieces of advice will change depending on the player.
The manager knows which players are the bogey players. And therefore a bigger pep talk required.
Can all make a difference.

But isn't that something you do right before a match and not days or even weeks ahead? Sure, the psychological factor shouldn't to be underestimated, but a player needs to be self assured/hyped up when entering the stage, not back at home when he goes through his practise routines.

[Richard Keys' Keys]

I disagree. If you change your game depending on who you play, you’re weak mentally and won’t win much.

[Rout]

Taylor and Bristow won plenty of games before a dart was thrown. Getting inside their opponents heads. Taylor would sometimes belittle and patronise an upcoming opponent. Or pull the old switcheroo and do some mind games Ferguson/Mourinho style and play himself up as the underdog sometimes. Brissy would know what buttons to press with his opponents on the oche.

Depends on your character I guess.

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Close this nothing thread

[ChrisW]

Even the player that eventually beat Whitlock claimed it was these kind of mind games that helped him beat Whitlock.

[Duterprat]

Taylor and Bristow won plenty of games before a dart was thrown. Getting inside their opponents heads. Taylor would sometimes belittle and patronise an upcoming opponent. Or pull the old switcheroo and do some mind games Ferguson/Mourinho style and play himself up as the underdog sometimes. Brissy would know what buttons to press with his opponents on the oche.

Depends on your character I guess.

That's true.
But these two are (as we say it in software development, no idea if it is real English) "edge cases". I doubt that e.g. in the case I mentioned in the OP neither Lewis nor Dobey would have been "beaten before a dart was thrown". And I doubt that, with Lewis being replaced by Whitlock, the situation changed.

One could even make a case: With COVID around and the announcement that players might be replaced if tested positive, a real pro would have prepared for a replacement player (if preparation is a thing at all).

[Duterprat]

Close this nothing thread

Sure. Lets close the childish fantasy threads were you jerk off to presenting medicocre amateur players as world champions with it, then. Those are on a level of nothingness I could only dream of.

[Rout]

That's true.
But these two are (as we say it in software development, no idea if it is real English) "edge cases". I doubt that e.g. in the case I mentioned in the OP neither Lewis nor Dobey would have been "beaten before a dart was thrown". And I doubt that, with Lewis being replaced by Whitlock, the situation changed.

One could even make a case: With COVID around and the announcement that players might be replaced if tested positive, a real pro would have prepared for a replacement player (if preparation is a thing at all).

I can see why Dobey was disgruntled to an extent. Whitlock came in with zero pressure on him cos he wasnt meant to be there. I'd imagine in his head it was kind of a bonus week for him and therefore was able to play with freedom. He hadn't had enough time to think about it and in darts that can be a real plus.

I'd imagine the logistics disrupted Dobey as much as the switch in opponent. Relatively late in finding out your game wont be till 24 hours later, thinking about it, dwelling in it.

But that's the way it goes, I have sympathy but noone did anything wrong. PDC were right to replace the covid players. Just sods law and shows how meaningless the rankings can be in terms of telling you who the form players are.

[BlueSpark]

No different in theory to boxers taking fights at short notice because of others withdrawing. You could spend months training to fight someone, preparing for their style and size etc, only to find a week before they have pulled out so you have to face someone else.
So forgive me for thinking this is bollocks if throwing a few darts at a board for what could be a matter of minutes is thought to be an issue here

[Moongoose McQueeen]

Close this nothing thread

Sure. Lets close the childish fantasy threads were you jerk off to presenting medicocre amateur players as world champions with it, then. Those are on a level of nothingness I could only dream of.

Tremendous

[Duterprat]

That's true.
But these two are (as we say it in software development, no idea if it is real English) "edge cases". I doubt that e.g. in the case I mentioned in the OP neither Lewis nor Dobey would have been "beaten before a dart was thrown". And I doubt that, with Lewis being replaced by Whitlock, the situation changed.

One could even make a case: With COVID around and the announcement that players might be replaced if tested positive, a real pro would have prepared for a replacement player (if preparation is a thing at all).

I can see why Dobey was disgruntled to an extent. Whitlock came in with zero pressure on him cos he wasnt meant to be there. I'd imagine in his head it was kind of a bonus week for him and therefore was able to play with freedom. He hadn't had enough time to think about it and in darts that can be a real plus.

I'd imagine the logistics disrupted Dobey as much as the switch in opponent. Relatively late in finding out your game wont be till 24 hours later, thinking about it, dwelling in it.

But that's the way it goes, I have sympathy but noone did anything wrong. PDC were right to replace the covid players. Just sods law and shows how meaningless the rankings can be in terms of telling you who the form players are.

Right, that certainly threw him off. But because of the whole shebang, and NOT because he had somehow prepared specifically for playing Lewis.

[ChrisW]

Moongoose asking for threads to be closed is a little bit amusing though.

[waddle147]

I disagree. If you change your game depending on who you play, you’re weak mentally and won’t win much.

It depends. Taylor played opponents differently, but from a position of strength and not weakness (forcing them to react to him, as opposed to the other way around). Although for him the match started with the pre-game interviews, and extended to the walk-on and even where he'd set his dart case.

His 2017 Matchplay win over MVG might be the best example you'll ever see of manipulating a match in his favour without actually cheating. Obviously he was playing up the sentimental side of it being his last go at his favourite tournament, bringing up how arrogant MVG had been in his prior game with Whitlock (where he was texting Voorty during the interval). MVG walked into a bearpit that night with every dart getting booed, he never settled, and Taylor was still good enough to put the foot on the throat and dish out a steam-rollering.

[Rout]

That's true.
But these two are (as we say it in software development, no idea if it is real English) "edge cases". I doubt that e.g. in the case I mentioned in the OP neither Lewis nor Dobey would have been "beaten before a dart was thrown". And I doubt that, with Lewis being replaced by Whitlock, the situation changed.

One could even make a case: With COVID around and the announcement that players might be replaced if tested positive, a real pro would have prepared for a replacement player (if preparation is a thing at all).

I can see why Dobey was disgruntled to an extent. Whitlock came in with zero pressure on him cos he wasnt meant to be there. I'd imagine in his head it was kind of a bonus week for him and therefore was able to play with freedom. He hadn't had enough time to think about it and in darts that can be a real plus.

I'd imagine the logistics disrupted Dobey as much as the switch in opponent. Relatively late in finding out your game wont be till 24 hours later, thinking about it, dwelling in it.

But that's the way it goes, I have sympathy but noone did anything wrong. PDC were right to replace the covid players. Just sods law and shows how meaningless the rankings can be in terms of telling you who the form players are.

Right, that certainly threw him off. But because of the whole shebang, and NOT because he had somehow prepared specifically for playing Lewis.

Agreed