What Constitutes a PDC Major?

[Deleted User]

Feebs is on fire today. Don't disagree with a word of that. Spot on.

[Kinks]

My opinion has not changed over the years. The PDC Majors are:

World Champioship
Matchplay
Grand Prix
UK Open
Premier League
European Championship
Players Championship Finals
Grand Slam

This for me would be my list, clearly some majors have more prestige and value than others I.e worlds, matchplay, but would still count all of the above as majors. Clearly subjective though as the author of the thread stated.

[waddle147]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs. An eight man invitational held over a weekend really shouldn't be a major, but their hand was somewhat forced by the prestige of getting back on the BBC and the big winner's cheque.

[Rout]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

However if they added eight more, nobody would recognise all of them as majors.

[meetthefeebles]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

[waddle147]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

However if they added eight more, nobody would recognise all of them as majors.

If the PGA was founded 26 years ago and televised four tournaments a year with the other 50+ events held with no cameras, then it'd be an apt comparison.

[Rout]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

However if they added eight more, nobody would recognise all of them as majors.

If the PGA was founded 26 years ago and televised four tournaments a year with the other 50+ events held with no cameras, then it'd be an apt comparison.

You made the comparison not me.

For reasons stated by feebs above, it's much closer to being just 2 majors than the 12 the PDC claim.

There is only 2 that everyone universally agree on.

[meetthefeebles]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

However if they added eight more, nobody would recognise all of them as majors.

If the PGA was founded 26 years ago and televised four tournaments a year with the other 50+ events held with no cameras, then it'd be an apt comparison.

So because the PDC is 'only' thirty or so year old, it gets a pass?

It established it's major tournaments in its infancy. It's only over the last decade or so it has added countless others. Every one had been to appease a new broadcaster.

[waddle147]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

If we're conceding that in the context of darts "major" was originally designed to differentiate "televised" and "untelevised", golf and tennis aren't apt comparisons because none of their events are untelevised.

[RIPLionheart]

Whether a tournament is a Major or not is solely dependent on whether, in a precise order, Sky then Barry Hearn decide it is. Please keep up.

[meetthefeebles]

I never understood how this was a matter of opinion.

Factually, whatever tournaments the PDC as the governing body designate as a major, are majors. Same for the BDO, same for the WDF.

You can debate the relative merits of each individual major, but you can't deny facts.

If golf or tennis decided to add a fifth major, it would be nowhere near as prestigious as the others, but it would still count as a major.

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

If we're conceding that in the context of darts "major" was originally designed to differentiate "televised" and "untelevised", golf and tennis aren't apt comparisons because none of their events are untelevised.

Any sport/game which demarcates the excellence of its best participants by the accumulation of 'majors' is fair comparison. Darts does not exist in a vaccum. Far from it. It confirms to the long-standing tradition of other games, like snooker and golf. In truth, it has copied them. But, unlike the others it copied, it went too far. In it's insecurity, it made dozens of major winners and a dozen major tournaments a year.

What other comparable organisation designates every one of its televised events (or close to it) a 'major'? The answer is none.

[RIPLionheart]

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

If we're conceding that in the context of darts "major" was originally designed to differentiate "televised" and "untelevised", golf and tennis aren't apt comparisons because none of their events are untelevised.

Any sport/game which demarcates the excellence of its best participants by the accumulation of 'majors' is fair comparison. Darts does not exist in a vaccum. Far from it. It confirms to the long-standing tradition of other games, like snooker and golf. In truth, it has copied them. But, unlike the others it copied, it went too far. In it's insecurity, it made dozens of major winners and a dozen major tournaments a year.

What other comparable organisation designates every one of its televised events (or close to it) a 'major'? The answer is none.

Lockdown has ruthlessly exposed a huge weakness in the PDC model - without the baying mob of ale emboldened “fans” the tournaments are, Worlds aside, lacking in any prestige or history.

[waddle147]

The difference, though, is that other sports don't add 'other' majors. Or, at least, it is done very, very rarely. These other sports have lots of TV events, but only the majors remain as actual majors.

In darts, the modern penchant is to declare virtually every and any TV tournament a 'major'. What other televised sport/game has about ten 'majors' a year?

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

If we're conceding that in the context of darts "major" was originally designed to differentiate "televised" and "untelevised", golf and tennis aren't apt comparisons because none of their events are untelevised.

Any sport/game which demarcates the excellence of its best participants by the accumulation of 'majors' is fair comparison. Darts does not exist in a vaccum. Far from it. It confirms to the long-standing tradition of other games, like snooker and golf. In truth, it has copied them. But, unlike the others it copied, it went too far. In it's insecurity, it made dozens of major winners and a dozen major tournaments a year.

What other comparable organisation designates every one of its televised events (or close to it) a 'major'? The answer is none.

Oh I agree that it's commercially motivated, in the context of appeasing broadcasters, sponsors and players. But anything which gets the players more money is always going to be fine with me.

My initial point was if the governing body designate the event as being a major, then it's a major. If that's the only way they can get events on the telly, then I'd have to say fair play. It's worth noting that golf and tennis have had to significantly cut their prize funds during covid, but the PDC haven't.

[meetthefeebles]

Women's golf did add majors, and I'd expect men's golf to add an Asian major at some point.

I don't know how long PDC darts have spoken about "majors", but originally wouldn't it have been to differentiate those tournaments from the 90% of untelevised tournaments? In the context of "Jamie Caven has 10 PDC ranking titles, but none of them are majors." Players having to grind through the Pro and Euro Tour (minor tournaments) to qualify for major tournaments.

I'm not sure if the PDC would classify the pairs or the World Series Finals as majors, but the other ten seem undisputed. Meaning that there were 60 PDC events in 2019, and between 10-12 were classified as major tournaments. They've tried to further differentiate the tournaments by inventing a "Triple Crown" akin to snooker of the Matchplay, worlds and PL, which most people accept as their three biggest tournaments.

I suppose now any new televised tournament would basically have to be a major, because they're hardly going to tell the broadcasters that the event matters less than even the "B" majors like the Euros, Masters and PCFs.

Okay, so how many televised PDC tournaments are not 'majors'? The point is that every other sport/game had lots of televised non-majors. What is the PDC strike rate?

I suspect it's damn high. That's the difference between darts and other regularly televised sports/games. Darts isn't secure enough to accept that an event can have good money and be televised but not be a 'major'. It needs to sell events as 'a major' to get, and keep, them on TV.

That dilutes things, clearly.

If we're conceding that in the context of darts "major" was originally designed to differentiate "televised" and "untelevised", golf and tennis aren't apt comparisons because none of their events are untelevised.

Any sport/game which demarcates the excellence of its best participants by the accumulation of 'majors' is fair comparison. Darts does not exist in a vaccum. Far from it. It confirms to the long-standing tradition of other games, like snooker and golf. In truth, it has copied them. But, unlike the others it copied, it went too far. In it's insecurity, it made dozens of major winners and a dozen major tournaments a year.

What other comparable organisation designates every one of its televised events (or close to it) a 'major'? The answer is none.

Oh I agree that it's commercially motivated, in the context of appeasing broadcasters, sponsors and players. But anything which gets the players more money is always going to be fine with me.

My initial point was if the governing body designate the event as being a major, then it's a major. If that's the only way they can get events on the telly, then I'd have to say fair play. It's worth noting that golf and tennis have had to significantly cut their prize funds during covid, but the PDC haven't.

If it earns more money, I'm in no position to criticise. I'm not interested in this in any way. I'm just some bloke who watches darts. I think this is a short sighted way to make money - and lets see how the prize funds look next year if this pandemic continues - but there are experienced businessmen calling the shots, and they've done well, so let them at it.

However, this thread asked what we 'constitute' PDC majors. The PDC view anything televised as a major. That's their call. I don't have to agree, and don't.

[waddle147]

Fair. I don't consider any of the covid majors over the last few months to be "true" majors, but if the trivia question is "how many majors has van den Bergh won" the correct answer is one.

I'd disagree with your "short-sighted" comment, that goes down the oul "PDC bubble will burst" route which is demonstrably untrue by any metric (and god knows how much money they'll get if they're ever lucky enough to have a world-class Chinese player in the vein of Ding Junhui). Really, getting consistently on television and the money therein is ultimately what won them the darts war.

ITV know they're getting the tournaments Sky don't want, but as long as their events are at least presented as being important they seem happy enough to pay decent money for the content (as indeed they are with snooker).

[Rout]

You cant really compare the covid Matchplay vs a non covid Matchplay with proper major vs other crappy TV tournament.

By that logic Liverpool didn't win the league properly, England didn't just win the 6 nations, Ronnie O'Sullivan isn't world champion and so forth. These are just strange times and history will not taint those titles in the long term.

But most darts fans would agree that the European championship, World series finals etc aren't remotely in the same league as the matchplay and worlds. It doesnt really matter that the PDC put them in the same category because noone else does.

[GtotheF]

Does anyone actually care?

[Rout]

Does anyone actually care about me?

Definitely not.

[meetthefeebles]

Fair. I don't consider any of the covid majors over the last few months to be "true" majors, but if the trivia question is "how many majors has van den Bergh won" the correct answer is one.

I'd disagree with your "short-sighted" comment, that goes down the oul "PDC bubble will burst" route which is demonstrably untrue by any metric (and god knows how much money they'll get if they're ever lucky enough to have a world-class Chinese player in the vein of Ding Junhui). Really, getting consistently on television and the money therein is ultimately what won them the darts war.

ITV know they're getting the tournaments Sky don't want, but as long as their events are at least presented as being important they seem happy enough to pay decent money for the content (as indeed they are with snooker).

I don't 'think the PDC Bubble will burst' etc and by no measure am I interested in that. The PDC makes money right now, and that's excellent for professional dart players.

Also, let me be clear. DcvB is a major winner. He won a major. Crowd or no crowd, he cleaned the field out in the matchplay. He is a major winner. Simple as that.

But what we are watching here is a good televised darts tourney. It is not a major. It really isn't.

[Booji Boy]

Wc
Wmp
Gp
Uko

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